Criminalizing out of bounds?

[Huck_It_Baby]

"Sears said he expected to hold hearings on the bill during the week of Feb. 25. Representatives of the skiing industry, law enforcement and rescue personnel and even skiers are encouraged to offer input on the proposal, he said."

I didn't see where this would be or when specifically. If anyone has info on hearings please chime in.

I'd like to tell Senetor Sears there are no water moccasins in the VT mountains.

 

[fbrissette]

I'd like to tell Senetor Sears there are no water moccasins in the VT mountains.

No water mocassins, but we all know that the catamount is staging a comeback !

 

[Breakout12]

It never is a good thing.

Until you need rescuing!

 

[MadMadWorld]

"Sears said he expected to hold hearings on the bill during the week of Feb. 25. Representatives of the skiing industry, law enforcement and rescue personnel and even skiers are encouraged to offer input on the proposal, he said."

I didn't see where this would be or when specifically. If anyone has info on hearings please chime in.

I'd like to tell Senetor Sears there are no water moccasins in the VT mountains.

What a terrible analogy!

 

[andyzee]

I think it would be quite obvious. The problem dudes will have no backpack, no skins and no skills to get themselves out of trouble outside of a phone. Serious backcountry skiers will only need help in case of a serious injury.

When it comes to law, the words quite obvious can and should be thrown out.

 

[St. Bear]

I thought it would be a $500 fine for having to be rescued. I didn't think that it would be on your criminal record.

That's on an entirely different level.

 

[from_the_NEK]

I thought it would be a $500 fine for having to be rescued. I didn't think that it would be on your criminal record.

That's on an entirely different level.

+1

Need rescue = $500 fine.

I know we debated this a lot back in early January but I have changed my tune from a checklist qualifying who gets fined to just using the above formula.

Criminalizing is rediculous.
Less rediculous would be only fining those that get need to be rescued south of Route 4 :flame:. That area is definitely the central point of the problem.

 

[MadMadWorld]

When it comes to law, the words quite obvious can and should be thrown out.

Very true. It just gives lawyers lots of room for their "interpretation". I agree with most hear, if you ski outside the boundary, you pay for the rescue. It's clear and enforceable.

 

[fbrissette]

I thought it would be a $500 fine for having to be rescued. I didn't think that it would be on your criminal record.

That's on an entirely different level.

+1

Criminalizing is rediculous.

I am no lawyer and not familiar with US laws but I think you are overracting. Illegal and criminal are two different things. Clearly, skiiing out of bound will not be within the realm of Criminal Law.

I would think it has to be declared illegal for a fine to come with it. It would be very similar to speeding or public urination for example. Both are illegals, come with a fine but are NOT on your criminal record since these have nothing to do with Criminal Law. Surely there has got to be a lawyer somewhere on this Forum ?

 

[St. Bear]

I am no lawyer and not familiar with US laws but I think you are overracting. Illegal and criminal are two different things. Clearly, skiiing out of bound will not be within the realm of Criminal Law.

I would think it has to be declared illegal for a fine to come with it. It would be very similar to speeding or public urination for example. Both are illegals, come with a fine but are NOT on your criminal record since these have nothing to do with Criminal Law. Surely there has got to be a lawyer somewhere on this Forum ?

Talk to Riv, he's the one that got me on this line of thinking.

 

[andyzee]

Surely there has got to be a lawyer somewhere on this Forum ?

Yeah, but figure you may need a good one. LOL

 

[riverc0il]

I'm not a native speaker so may be I don't understand the finer meaning of words but how is that different than: ' It is illegal to speed on the highway, but unless you get caught it's fine' ? Is there a way where you can have a fine for something legal ????

I don't think I am arguing semantics. Let's take your example of speeding. A more appropriate comparison would be "speeding is only illegal if you cause an accident." In other words, go as fast as you want despite the speed limit signs and no one will care but if you cause an accident, then you are going to jail.

I don't think that comparison works very well either because you can make a legit case for that. Also, there is a difference between a speeding fine for a moving violation and a "crime" such as unlawful trespass. In the former, you get a ticket and pay a fine (i.e. rescue fees, good!). In the latter, you appear before a judge and get slapped with a misdemeanor on your record.

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

No water mocassins, but we all know that the catamount is staging a comeback !

Catamounts roaming around would actually deter me! Petty sure no confirmed sightings since the 1930's?

Killington can put up some Catmount signage by Coops cabin and problem solved, right Sentetor Sears?

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

Just saw this. Looks like no fines for now.

http://www.fox44abc22yourvoice.com/story/21349689/bill-would-impose-fine-for-skiing-out-of-bounds

 

[dmc]

Catamounts roaming around would actually deter me! Petty sure no confirmed sightings since the 1930's?

They've been spotted in the Catskills.. By peopleI know...
But the Govt wont confirm...

http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/forums/phpBB-3.0.5/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=348

 

[Huck_It_Baby]

They've been spotted in the Catskills.. By peopleI know...
But the Govt wont confirm...

http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/forums/phpBB-3.0.5/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=348

Wow! Do the people you know say they are aggressive or reclusive?

 

[MadMadWorld]

They've been spotted in the Catskills.. By peopleI know...
But the Govt wont confirm...

http://www.catskillmountaineer.com/forums/phpBB-3.0.5/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=348

Here we go.....I find it extremely unlikely almost impossible for the Catskills to sustain a breeding population. There are plenty of very large Bobcats out there but the Eastern Catamount has long been extinct.

 

[dmc]

Wow! Do the people you know say they are aggressive or reclusive?

Well... they just saw them randomly.. I've never heard of anything except a chance encounter..
I guess that makes them reclusive..

 

[dmc]

http://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/eij/article/cat_eyes

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Vermont already has a long standing law that if you go outside the resort's boundaries and need to be rescued you could be liable for expenses relating to the rescue. It has never been enforced as law enforcement fears a large rescue bill will be a deterrent to calling for help. The new bill is a new way to at least partially recover some of the expenses since it has become a big problem this season.

Everybody realizes that the biggest number has been a kmart. In responce they have increased the boundary ropes in the area people duck with many signs. When you buy at day lift ticket or a season pass it is all spelled out. Most tickets and all the season pass release forms that you agree to honor the resorts boundary. IMHO this should be a no brainer but there are a number of skiers and riders with no common sense or consideration for the problems that will be caused for others if they get lost.

You want to duck the boundary rope and need rescuing you should have some consequences. With 50 or so needing rescue this season so far, it's a miracle no one has died thanks to the unselfishness and efforts by local rescue crews and law enforcement.

Being stupid should not be criminalized but something needs to change before someone does die. As mentioned, there are numerous ways in which resorts provide warnings about skiing out of bounds. Saying that the resort somehow encourages this is complete sillytown.