The "Sugarbush Thread"

[Hawk]

My head is going to explode. Didnt they replace the pipe under the access road before Win sold to Altera???
If the problem comes down to labor as you now say, why havent they been investing in more automated systems? previously you said the fan guns are more expensive to operate than tower guns but they can be operated automatically and remotely without any labor other than a guy monitoring from a control room drinking coffee.

can't believe I got suckered into this snowmaking shit again. fook me. I need to make some turns

Howie, it was my understanding that during Win's tenure they fixed the pipe from the river most of the way up to the main pump house because of major blow outs.

 

[Plowboy]

Howie, it was my understanding that during Win's tenure they fixed the pipe from the river most of the way up to the main pump house because of major blow outs.

Correct, not sure how far they went but it was not on the Access Rd. They did a few repairs near Club Sugarbush this summer and one near the Sugarbush Inn a few years ago. Other than that 99% of the Access Rd. pipe is original.

 

[Plowboy]

MRG opening for the weekend, 1 week early.

"This Saturday and Sunday, we’ll be spinning the Practice Slope and Sunnyside Double (to at least mid-station)."

 

[millerm277]

The bottom line is, everything takes money and even with a billion-dollar company every expense has to be justified and decision scrutinized. Just like life, prioritize the areas where you can make the biggest and most effective impact and let the rest sort itself out.

I'm not sure I really buy this argument with lift maintenance or snowmaking system upkeep like we're talking about here, though?

Those are pretty much....the two things that matter for a NE ski area.

Not having your lifts ready to go for a major holiday period is pretty much throwing the rest of the money you spent on the ski area away and is the kind of thing that makes people unwilling to come back for years or ever.

Not having your snowmaking system in order isn't much less bad. They're (so far) getting lucky with far better than usual weather. But even so, with what you're saying here it basically sounds like they're running in a fashion that seems wildly inefficient in terms of both labor and in terms of being able to actually take full advantage of the most optimal (+ most cost-effective) times to be making snow?

 

[fulgoreXC]

Correct, not sure how far they went but it was not on the Access Rd. They did a few repairs near Club Sugarbush this summer and one near the Sugarbush Inn a few years ago. Other than that 99% of the Access Rd. pipe is original.

The pipe was replaced from the pumphouse at the Mad River to the culvert that crosses under the access road at Alpine Options. From Gold Hill Rd. up it's all under or just off the pavement. The section from Alpine Options to the control building is original to '95 and approaching the end of its design life. That's where the leaks have been occurring for the last handful of years. This summer it was down by Club Sugarbush. In recent years it was at the GF intersection. In every case they had to cut the asphalt.

 

[Plowboy]

The pipe was replaced from the pumphouse at the Mad River to the culvert that crosses under the access road at Alpine Options. From Gold Hill Rd. up it's all under or just off the pavement. The section from Alpine Options to the control building is original to '95 and approaching the end of its design life. That's where the leaks have been occurring for the last handful of years. This summer it was down by Club Sugarbush. In recent years it was at the GF intersection. In every case they had to cut the asphalt.

Old timers must be hitting me! For some reason I don't remember it being replaced from Gold Hill up to AP.

 

[mikec142]

The pipe was replaced from the pumphouse at the Mad River to the culvert that crosses under the access road at Alpine Options. From Gold Hill Rd. up it's all under or just off the pavement. The section from Alpine Options to the control building is original to '95 and approaching the end of its design life. That's where the leaks have been occurring for the last handful of years. This summer it was down by Club Sugarbush. In recent years it was at the GF intersection. In every case they had to cut the asphalt.

Curious why the pipes would be buried under asphalt and not above ground? I can see arguments for either way.

 

[tumbler]

It is buried so when they are not pumping water they don't have to drain the line so it doesn't freeze. It takes a long time for that much pipe to fill up and pressurize. There is also not a lot of room along the Access road to run it above ground and it wouldn't look good.

 

[mikec142]

It is buried so when they are not pumping water they don't have to drain the line so it doesn't freeze. It takes a long time for that much pipe to fill up and pressurize. There is also not a lot of room along the Access road to run it above ground and it wouldn't look good.

I would think that the line would freeze underground as well. There's above ground pipe on the mountain. Wouldn't this have the same issue?

I get the ugliness issue. But it would be much easier to diagnose and fix leaks. I'm sure there's a million reasons to bury it too.

 

[jimmywilson69]

It makes sense to bury a low pressure feed to prevent against freezing. The on mountain high pressure snow making system gets drained whenever they aren't actively pumping to prevent freezing.

 

[thetrailboss]

I get the ugliness issue. But it would be much easier to diagnose and fix leaks. I'm sure there's a million reasons to bury it too.

No way in effing hell would a land use review committee under Act 250 approve of that alongside the road.

 

[cdskier]

I would think that the line would freeze underground as well. There's above ground pipe on the mountain. Wouldn't this have the same issue?

I get the ugliness issue. But it would be much easier to diagnose and fix leaks. I'm sure there's a million reasons to bury it too.

Even frozen ground provides some degree of insulation from very cold air temps.

 

[Shredmonkey254]

Even frozen ground provides some degree of insulation from very cold air temps.

There are 1,124 pages on the "Sugarbush thread". If we got rid of every post related to snowmaking, there would probably be less than half that page count.

 

[cdskier]

There are 1,124 pages on the "Sugarbush thread". If we got rid of every post related to snowmaking, there would probably be less than half that page count.

I'm not so sure...there have been quite a few posts about lifts over the years too. Maybe 1/3 snow-making, 1/3 lifts and 1/3 other? That honestly might even be high for both lifts and snow-making. The snow-making discussions die off quickly once a good portion of the mountain is open.

 

[Smellytele]

The snow-making discussions die off quickly once a good portion of the mountain is open.

Then the lift complaints pick up

 

[fulgoreXC]

The pipe is buried between 4 and 8 feet. The average frost depth is about 4 feet in that area, even under asphalt. The pipeline traverses many property lines including the town highway. There's a right of way for the pipe to exist where it is. Just like municipal water and sewer, infrastructure is buried so it doesn't conflict with the use of the property.

Above vs. below ground. Here we go... This is another point of contention in the snowmaking world. At SB there's a mix of above and below ground pipe. Primary feed lines are generally buried and usually full while distribution or "spurs" are above ground and require filling for use. From a water usage perspective spurs need "bleeds" on the end of the line to prevent freezing. Generally speaking when flowing water slows to below 5 feet per second freezing occurs. So just like in older homes that are not well insulated, you leave the faucet dripping to prevent the pipes from freezing. Below ground pipes are "out of sight, out of mind", and thus the only way to know if they are leaking is when water or air break out on the ground surface. Then it's an "oh sh$&" moment, emergency shutdown and mobilizing equipment and personnel to fix it. Anyone remember when they didn't make snow on Sunrise? Yeah, sometimes it's just plain impractical to fix mid season. But who knew the line would blow there that previous summer? Thus the conundrum between above ground and below ground pipe. Let the conjecturing begin...

 

[djd66]

Then the lift complaints pick up

You can count on on 20 new pages if JD comes back again ,… God help us!

 

[cdskier]

Maybe there's some hope for our new snow reporter...

Meet the Newest Sugarbush Snow Reporter, Griffin! - SugarBlog

My name is Griffin Paradee, and I’m excited to share that Sugarbush has trusted me with the role of Snow Reporter for the 2025–2026 season. I live just over the mountain in Bristol, which means I get the daily privilege of driving over the beautiful, though very dark, App Gap every morning, with...

blog.sugarbush.com

He's an RIT grad and at least according to Barry Melrose, "You have to be a genius to go to RIT". (I'll be extremely shocked if anyone is actually familiar with this reference)

 

[thetrailboss]

Maybe there's some hope for our new snow reporter...

Meet the Newest Sugarbush Snow Reporter, Griffin! - SugarBlog

My name is Griffin Paradee, and I’m excited to share that Sugarbush has trusted me with the role of Snow Reporter for the 2025–2026 season. I live just over the mountain in Bristol, which means I get the daily privilege of driving over the beautiful, though very dark, App Gap every morning, with...

blog.sugarbush.com

He's an RIT grad and at least according to Barry Melrose, "You have to be a genius to go to RIT". (I'll be extremely shocked if anyone is actually familiar with this reference)

So no more Slidey-B?

App Gap. I knew that road like the back of my hand. Bristol is a cool town.

 

[cdskier]

So no more Slidey-B?

App Gap. I knew that road like the back of my hand. Bristol is a cool town.

If he says Slidey-B, I'm petitioning my alma mater to revoke his degree!