Big Burke announcement

VTKilarney · Aug 6, 2015

I found this quote to be very interesting:

Stenger says he spent a day in May 2014 at the SEC's Miami field office, discussing the development with federal officials.

Makes you wonder if the primary interest is with Mr. Quiros.

River19 · Aug 6, 2015

So Stenger wants to turn the Darling Mansion into a "retreat or Think tank"......wtf is a "think tank".......

I've been on plenty of corporate retreats to former grand properties turned conference center.....but they usually have to be within a short drive of.....well corporations requiring such places......

Anywho.....I do like that the guy keeps throwing things against a wall to see what sticks......

BenedictGomez · Aug 6, 2015

VTKilarney said:
I found this quote to be very interesting:

Stenger says he spent a day in May 2014 at the SEC's Miami field office, discussing the development with federal officials.

Makes you wonder if the primary interest is with Mr. Quiros.

I'd say that's an excellent deduction, and the answer is almost certainly, yes.

River19 said:
So Stenger wants to turn the Darling Mansion into a "retreat or Think tank"......wtf is a "think tank".......

A think tank is an entity that does research on a (usually) specific topic or group of subjects in mind. In most cases, they're politically charged with either a strong left-wing or a strong right-wing bias, and EXTREMELY well-connected to very powerful people in DC.

The only rational explanation for this odd choice, is that Stenger wishes to make more influential friends in Washington, likely to grease the wheels, etc....

River19 · Aug 7, 2015

BenedictGomez said:
I'd say that's an excellent deduction, and the answer is almost certainly, yes.

A think tank is an entity that does research on a (usually) specific topic or group of subjects in mind. In most cases, they're politically charged with either a strong left-wing or a strong right-wing bias, and EXTREMELY well-connected to very powerful people in DC.

The only rational explanation for this odd choice, is that Stenger wishes to make more influential friends in Washington, likely to grease the wheels, etc....

I feared that was/is his version of a think tank........I was hoping he was using the phrase to describe something other than a place for well connected individuals to spend government grants studying politically charged topics.

From my understanding the Darling Mansion needs a couple million in deferred maintenance especially if it will be used for something like a B&B etc. which it is ideally suited for but the numbers to make it work are staggering.

Big Wave Dave · Aug 7, 2015

thetrailboss said:
Not necessarily. Vermont, being a "tourist state", surely has qualified management locally that could have been tapped.

Remember that a big part of Stenger's deal is that it would create jobs for the locals.

this is a very simplistic statement. Stengers goal has always been to bring jobs to the NEK, so people stay here and the population stops its decrease.

If I am a restaurant manager who moves to the NEK for a job at burke, and I stay here, buy a house, pay into the local economy, raise my family, who then, a generation removed, have jobs, isnt what Stenger was looking to do accomplished?

For what its worth I also know local Burke companies, who do to the rabid cyncicism of the posters on this thread I will not name, who have had very positive contracting experiences at burke. Within the last year.

deadheadskier · Aug 7, 2015

As someone with extensive restaurant management experience, the challenge is always cost of living vs compensation balance. Ownership always assumes people will be willing to take less to experience the "mountain lifestyle" and inevitably there ends up being rabid turnover. I've got friends running high revenue restaurants in the Stowe area that get paid 50 cents on the dollar for what they'd make in the city, yet the cost of living is almost just as high.

BenedictGomez · Aug 7, 2015

Big Wave Dave said:
Stengers goal has always been to bring jobs to the NEK, so people stay here

Wait.......... You actually believe this?

Good Lord, I hope someone in your family padlocks your wallet.

deadheadskier said:
I've got friends running high revenue restaurants in the Stowe area that get paid 50 cents on the dollar for what they'd make in the city, yet the cost of living is almost just as high.

Vermont is one of the worst places in America, RE: cost of living.

Wages are generally low-to-modest, and taxation is very high (and rising).

thetrailboss · Aug 7, 2015

Big Wave Dave said:
this is a very simplistic statement. Stengers goal has always been to bring jobs to the NEK, so people stay here and the population stops its decrease.

If I am a restaurant manager who moves to the NEK for a job at burke, and I stay here, buy a house, pay into the local economy, raise my family, who then, a generation removed, have jobs, isnt what Stenger was looking to do accomplished?

For what its worth I also know local Burke companies, who do to the rabid cyncicism of the posters on this thread I will not name, who have had very positive contracting experiences at burke. Within the last year.

I'm not sure where you are going here....I guess the main point is that you're saying that the point was to create decent jobs for the NEK...with some ad hominem attacks thrown in. Gotta make up for lost time I guess. :roll:

As to the jobs, well, initially I had the same opinion as you....that even entry level jobs are better than none and that the effect will be to create more economic activity and better jobs up the line, etc. But some challenged me on that and I've thought about it and looked into it deeper.

If that theory was correct, then Vermont, with a lot of its economy based on tourism for decades, should be a great place with good opportunities. But it is not. In fact, a lot of the jobs that are open are low wage jobs that just cannot pay the bills for the average person. I agree with what DHS said about the restaurant industry in particular....folks just assume that Vermont can pay less because the cost of living is less. That is not true.

Also, two years ago WCAX ran this portion of their series on the projects that explains that A LOT of the jobs are low-paying, temporary, and seasonal. The better paying jobs are going to be fewer and farther between:

http://www.wcax.com/story/23909631/building-a-new-kingdom-part-3

So are my ideas simplistic? I don't think so. I've reflected and thought critically about it. I've probably done more than the average person. My conclusions may not be as rosy as yours, but it is what it is.

And glad to hear that some are having better luck with the mountain. I could honestly give you a long list of businesses that in the past have been burned badly by Burke. And a lot of good employees who devoted their (professional) lives to the mountain and were unceremoniously shown the door a few years back by Q. Guess who cannot find employees now?

Big Wave Dave · Aug 7, 2015

thetrailboss said:
I'm not sure where you are going here....I guess the main point is that you're saying that the point was to create decent jobs for the NEK...with some ad hominem attacks thrown in. Gotta make up for lost time I guess. :roll:

As to the jobs, well, initially I had the same opinion as you....that even entry level jobs are better than none and that the effect will be to create more economic activity and better jobs up the line, etc. But some challenged me on that and I've thought about it and looked into it deeper.

If that theory was correct, then Vermont, with a lot of its economy based on tourism for decades, should be a great place with good opportunities. But it is not. In fact, a lot of the jobs that are open are low wage jobs that just cannot pay the bills for the average person. I agree with what DHS said about the restaurant industry in particular....folks just assume that Vermont can pay less because the cost of living is less. That is not true.

Also, two years ago WCAX ran this portion of their series on the projects that explains that A LOT of the jobs are low-paying, temporary, and seasonal. The better paying jobs are going to be fewer and farther between:

http://www.wcax.com/story/23909631/building-a-new-kingdom-part-3

So are my ideas simplistic? I don't think so. I've reflected and thought critically about it. I've probably done more than the average person. My conclusions may not be as rosy as yours, but it is what it is.

And glad to hear that some are having better luck with the mountain. I could honestly give you a long list of businesses that in the past have been burned badly by Burke. And a lot of good employees who devoted their (professional) lives to the mountain and were unceremoniously shown the door a few years back by Q. Guess who cannot find employees now?

Are you surprised resort town, seasonal jobs, are on the lower end of the pay scale? Really? You are describing what passes for an economy in the post- manufacturing age. To someone who think this is unique to Burke, or Vt in general, is wrong. We have societal ills of which EB 5 is a symptom, not a panacea. Until we figure out the return of manufacturing, then this dynamic will not be solved.

And may I also add Vermont, with its legions of aging leftist hippys and new residents attracted to similar ideologies, is a TERRIBLE place for business. Fobes places it at #43 on its list of most business hostile states. the fact it has a strong tourist economy means nothing. So does Cape Cod- are you aware how much poverty there is on the Cape? Tourist economies are cherries on top of the pie. If we had a legislature that actually had a clue about encouraging business, perhaps Stenger wouldnt need to try to be riding in on his white horse, and dissapointing you and others with what is in his carriage.

And my statement was more a response to your idea of "local". It is rearward looking. Someone who moves here and sets down roots has just as much credibility to be part of the NEK than someone whose grandpappy was riding logs down the Connecticut. Please note, I was also responding to prior statements about workers coming into town for hotel jobs- I have no actual knowledge of this occurring. I do believe my analogy stands, regardless of your volume of rumination. I was not a local at one point. Now I am. So what exactly does your statement about "benefitting locals" mean? And I hate to say it, but if you dedicate years of your life to a corporate entity that CONTINUOUSLY fails, through multiple owners and multiple economies, should you expect permanent employment? If I bought Burke, I would clean house too. I dont want to sound like I am supporting some of the Q's more obnoxious decisions, but take the Q's out of the picture and basic business sense tells you that what went on the past simply was not working.

And if Burke cant find employees, where are they working? Kennametal? Ethan Allen? Please, tell me, who else is hiring on a large scale in the NEK?

Another thing. No one ever intends for low paying or minimum wage jobs to be the basis of a family life. But what if, where a housewife in Lydonville who up to this point could not find work to help support her family, she now has the opportunity to become a chamber maid at the hotel, albeit for less money than she prefers. Should she not take the job and contribute to her family's bottom line? of course she should, if she determines its the right thing to do. And you know what? her high school age kids, maybe they have jobs now that before did not exist. Do you really doubt the reality of this dynamic?

And Guess what? if they dont have any employees at (just giving a number) $8 an hour, or what have you, then... they need to pay more! if they can hire people at $8 an hour, then that is the going rate for labor. How many open positions where there are Jay last year with the supposed low wages? Anecdotally, I never once had a staffing issue in my many days of skiing/drinking/entertaining there, not once. So I guess the natural labor rate in the NEK is what they are offering. Are you not aware everyone in life thinks they are underpaid and bitches about it?

if one were to read this thread in a vacuum, and then went to the NEK and actually saw all the work that has been done, they would not be able to circle the square on the multiple years of sky falling rhetoric from you and others.

Yes long gone (it is summer you know, skiing website are not high on my reading list) but the recent article in 7 Days, whose disengenous negative title was not backed up by the facts presented, has once again piqued my interest in this online BurkeFest.

VTKilarney · Aug 7, 2015

I have a hard time believing that the EB-5 gods are better at picking projects that are sustainable and will generate wealth than traditional financing sources are.

BenedictGomez · Aug 7, 2015

VTKilarney said:
I have a hard time believing that the EB-5 gods are better at picking projects that are sustainable and will generate wealth than traditional financing sources are.

That's the late Friday entrant for "Understatement of the Week".

thetrailboss · Aug 7, 2015

Big Wave Dave said:
Are you surprised resort town, seasonal jobs, are on the lower end of the pay scale? Really? You are describing what passes for an economy in the post- manufacturing age. To someone who think this is unique to Burke, or Vt in general, is wrong. We have societal ills of which EB 5 is a symptom, not a panacea. Until we figure out the return of manufacturing, then this dynamic will not be solved.

And may I also add Vermont, with its legions of aging leftist hippys and new residents attracted to similar ideologies, is a TERRIBLE place for business. Fobes places it at #43 on its list of most business hostile states. the fact it has a strong tourist economy means nothing. So does Cape Cod- are you aware how much poverty there is on the Cape? Tourist economies are cherries on top of the pie. If we had a legislature that actually had a clue about encouraging business, perhaps Stenger wouldnt need to try to be riding in on his white horse, and dissapointing you and others with what is in his carriage.

And my statement was more a response to your idea of "local". It is rearward looking. Someone who moves here and sets down roots has just as much credibility to be part of the NEK than someone whose grandpappy was riding logs down the Connecticut. Please note, I was also responding to prior statements about workers coming into town for hotel jobs- I have no actual knowledge of this occurring. I do believe my analogy stands, regardless of your volume of rumination. I was not a local at one point. Now I am. So what exactly does your statement about "benefitting locals" mean? And I hate to say it, but if you dedicate years of your life to a corporate entity that CONTINUOUSLY fails, through multiple owners and multiple economies, should you expect permanent employment? If I bought Burke, I would clean house too. I dont want to sound like I am supporting some of the Q's more obnoxious decisions, but take the Q's out of the picture and basic business sense tells you that what went on the past simply was not working.

And if Burke cant find employees, where are they working? Kennametal? Ethan Allen? Please, tell me, who else is hiring on a large scale in the NEK?

Another thing. No one ever intends for low paying or minimum wage jobs to be the basis of a family life. But what if, where a housewife in Lydonville who up to this point could not find work to help support her family, she now has the opportunity to become a chamber maid at the hotel, albeit for less money than she prefers. Should she not take the job and contribute to her family's bottom line? of course she should, if she determines its the right thing to do. And you know what? her high school age kids, maybe they have jobs now that before did not exist. Do you really doubt the reality of this dynamic?

And Guess what? if they dont have any employees at (just giving a number) $8 an hour, or what have you, then... they need to pay more! if they can hire people at $8 an hour, then that is the going rate for labor. How many open positions where there are Jay last year with the supposed low wages? Anecdotally, I never once had a staffing issue in my many days of skiing/drinking/entertaining there, not once. So I guess the natural labor rate in the NEK is what they are offering. Are you not aware everyone in life thinks they are underpaid and bitches about it?

if one were to read this thread in a vacuum, and then went to the NEK and actually saw all the work that has been done, they would not be able to circle the square on the multiple years of sky falling rhetoric from you and others.

Yes long gone (it is summer you know, skiing website are not high on my reading list) but the recent article in 7 Days, whose disengenous negative title was not backed up by the facts presented, has once again piqued my interest in this online BurkeFest.

You've lost me.

What was wrong with the 7D story? I thought it actually was pretty fair and balanced.

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

thetrailboss · Aug 7, 2015

And as to the question of where the locals are doing if there are no jobs, it's pretty obvious...they're leaving Vermont! Exhibit A right here. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

Sent from my iPhone using AlpineZone

Masskier · Aug 9, 2015

Big turn out at the Bike'N Brew yesterday. Good music, food and drink.

VTKilarney · Aug 9, 2015

The weather was perfect. Good to hear.

.

River19 · Aug 11, 2015

Masskier said:
Big turn out at the Bike'N Brew yesterday. Good music, food and drink.

We made the call the avoid it and hang at the Tiki Bar instead....after years of doing the B n B the past couple have been "meh" so we figured we would avoid it again this year.

That being said, I'm glad it was a successful event, however I wish they would get more interesting beers in but I believe they are limited to a certain extent to what their current distributor carries.......but I could be wrong. That was the story I got a couple years ago when I asked about some other VT breweries...

I also took a spin up the the hotel yesterday morning, the 50ish rigs & cars there predominately had green plates, which was nice to see..... once you get past the "I liked the view better without the building" phase the building if there has to be one looks nice.

The Foggy Goggle appears a ways away from opening up......I wish them luck.

dlague · Aug 11, 2015

River19 said:
The Foggy Goggle appears a ways away from opening up......I wish them luck.

Isn't that at Sunday River? Actually it turns out there are several after doing a Google Search.

from_the_NEK · Aug 11, 2015

dlague said:
Isn't that at Sunday River? Actually it turns out there are several after doing a Google Search.

Yeah... Not an original name by any stretch. I will be surprised if they are open for ski season.

River19 · Aug 11, 2015

from_the_NEK said:
Yeah... Not an original name by any stretch. I will be surprised if they are open for ski season.

Based on how they are looking right now, I think if they bust their asses they could finish things in a couple months but I'm talking the physical pieces not the, hiring, supply sourcing, licensing, inspections, etc. depending on how that goes that could push things out to Hotel Q time frame.

The joint looks small and like it was in rough shape to begin with so I'm sure they have been dealing with the bones of that structure.

I wonder if they can avoid the Burke Sulphur Water......

VTKilarney · Aug 11, 2015

Lots of "before" photos of bike and brew but no "during" photos. Makes me wonder just how many people turned out.

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