Belleayre to be part of ORDA?

highpeaksdrifter · Jun 1, 2011

I read this on nyskiblog.com this morning.

http://pressrepublican.com/0100_news/x2142724374/ORDA-may-gain-Belleayre-Ski-Resort

RootDKJ · Jun 1, 2011

Is this a good move for the skier?

4aprice · Jun 1, 2011

RootDKJ said:
Is this a good move for the skier?

Might be if they offer a pass good at all 3.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

dmc · Jun 1, 2011

RootDKJ said:
Is this a good move for the skier?

How about the taxpayer?

RootDKJ · Jun 1, 2011

dmc said:
How about the taxpayer?

Ah taxes...

I hear ya, but I'm unfortunate enough to pay dirty jerzy taxes, most of which gets wasted anyway.

mondeo · Jun 1, 2011

Won't somebody please think of the children!?

catskills · Jun 1, 2011

Not good for Belleayre. Belleayre is in competition with Gore. You can see from this Gore Unit Management plan on page 2-10 that almost half of Gores Skier visitors come from the Hudson River Valley and points south. This means Gore competes with Belleayre for many of the same skier visitors.

Will Belleayre get that new lodge that was going to built a few years ago? Probably not.

From Gore Unit management plan, Gore skier visitors by zip code pie chart:

03% - Hudson Valley
10% - Long Island
04%- Mid Atlantic
13%- New Jersey
10% - New York City
03% - Pennsylvania
03% - Connecticut
-----------------------------
46% - Skiers that drive past Belleayre to get to Gore

It would be better if Belleayre was managed by NY State Parks, which is the same agency that runs Jones Beach on Long Island. The NY State Parks are run to break even without costing the tax payers any money.

ta&idaho · Jun 1, 2011

This seems to make a lot of sense. There is no reason to have two different agencies running ski resorts for New York State, ORDA seems to do a better job than DEC, and the combination pass options would be really attractive, especially to the skiers who come from the NYC area.

dmc · Jun 1, 2011

RootDKJ said:
Ah taxes...

I hear ya, but I'm unfortunate enough to pay dirty jerzy taxes, most of which gets wasted anyway.

You worry about your state taxes... I'll worry about mine..

I really don't want to add any more to NY spending.. I'd rather have teachers right now then a ski area changing hands to another govt agency...

mondeo · Jun 1, 2011

RootDKJ said:
Ah taxes...

I hear ya, but I'm unfortunate enough to pay dirty jerzy taxes, most of which gets wasted anyway.

Doesn't that go without saying, anywhere?

mondeo · Jun 1, 2011

dmc said:
You worry about your state taxes... I'll worry about mine..
I really don't want to add any more to NY spending.. I'd rather have teachers right now then a ski area changing hands to another govt agency...

Could do without both. NYS DOE is attrociously inefficient, their answer to any problem is to throw more money at it. There were multiple teachers in my H.S. that were teaching 2-3 classes. The physics teacher had a 20 person AP Physics class and a 10 person regents physics class. 30 students total.

And then there were the Language Arts teachers (2nd order tangent - how is it that there are 4 years of required L.A., but music and visual arts are traditional budget cuts?,) that showed 2 movies for every book, used the same lesson plans year after year, and the majority of grading was done with electronically scanned multiple choice tests.

Overall, I'd say about half of my teachers got away with working 25 hours per week for 9 months of the year. Despite the screaming of the teacher's unions, there could be a lot more done with a lot less.

highpeaksdrifter · Jun 1, 2011

ta&idaho said:
This seems to make a lot of sense. There is no reason to have two different agencies running ski resorts for New York State, ORDA seems to do a better job than DEC, and the combination pass options would be really attractive, especially to the skiers who come from the NYC area.

I agree, I wonder how it would effect those of us who are upstate skiers.

dmc said:
You worry about your state taxes... I'll worry about mine..
I really don't want to add any more to NY spending.. I'd rather have teachers right now then a ski area changing hands to another govt agency...

Doesn’t consolidation usually lead to financial savings?

threecy · Jun 1, 2011

highpeaksdrifter said:
Doesn’t consolidation usually lead to financial savings?

In government, not necessarily

ta&idaho · Jun 1, 2011

highpeaksdrifter said:
Doesn’t consolidation usually lead to financial savings?

I imagine this consolidation could generate both cost savings (eliminating some redundancies, greater purchasing power, better management practices) and revenue increases (I'm guessing higher prices at Belleayre; perhaps the opportunity to attract more skiers to all three resorts with combo pass options).

mondeo · Jun 1, 2011

ta&idaho said:
I imagine this consolidation could generate both cost savings (eliminating some redundancies, greater purchasing power, better management practices) and revenue increases (I'm guessing higher prices at Belleayre; perhaps the opportunity to attract more skiers to all three resorts with combo pass options).

But then the bureaucracy will need to expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.

x10003q · Jun 1, 2011

This will be a bummer for Belleayre and Belleayre skiers. Hunter, Windham, and Plattekill will be happy. ORDA is all about Lake Placid and the LP venues (bobsled run, ski jumping facilty, convention center, Whiteface). Any money that Belleayre might make will go to support LP.

For me Belleayre and Gore do not compete. All of my day trips are to the Catskills and my overnight/weekend skiing is to Gore/WF. I actually do not ski that often at Belleayre. I usually hit Plattekill on the weekends and Hunter midweek.

RootDKJ · Jun 1, 2011

dmc said:
You worry about your state taxes... I'll worry about mine..
I really don't want to add any more to NY spending.. I'd rather have teachers right now then a ski area changing hands to another govt agency...

:argue::beer: :spread:

mondeo said:
Doesn't that go without saying, anywhere?

Usually that's the case.

I've never skied Gore. At 4+ hours, it's not in day trip range. A Belle/Gore/Whiteface pass option does interest me though.

ta&idaho · Jun 1, 2011

highpeaksdrifter said:
I agree, I wonder how it would effect those of us who are upstate skiers.

I'm guessing you'd see an increase in skier visits, but most of that increase would come from season passholders who would presumably be relatively responsible stakeholders. You might also see a small increase in price for a combination pass (although ORDA might decide also to offer single-resort passes at a lower price).

dmc · Jun 1, 2011

x10003q said:
I actually do not ski that often at Belleayre. I usually hit Plattekill on the weekends and Hunter midweek.

Selling out to ORDA won't make the terrain any more interesting...

x10003q · Jun 1, 2011

ta&idaho said:
I'm guessing you'd see an increase in skier visits, but most of that increase would come from season passholders who would presumably be relatively responsible stakeholders. You might also see a small increase in price for a combination pass (although ORDA might decide also to offer single-resort passes at a lower price).

ORDA offers for Gore only a midweek non-holiday for $399. (will go up to $449 June21). ORDA offered a WF only non-holiday incl weekends for $419 until May 17. This is no longer available. You can see a little bit of the favored status WF has in this pass. For another $20 more than the Gore midweek only pass you could have had all non-holiday weekends at WF. That is an amazing deal not available to Gore only skiers.

Belleayre to be part of ORDA?

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