2008-2009 Rates are Posted: Up 4% Yr-Yr

[billski]

The resorts have begun posting their window rates for 2008-2009.

With only about half the precincts reporting (statistically it's not fair to make an assessment yet) median and average increase is no surprise at 4%. (note to self: where's my 4% raise???)

Ticket Window rate is the higher of either weekend or holiday price, full-day, all-area, adult. Compared to 07-08. Source: Resort Web Site. I do a full survey, probably by November all the resorts will have posted.

Here is a sampler. Remember, not all resorts have posted including Kmart and $teaux.

Biggest change: Granite Gorge (34%), Black (Maine) 25%, MAD RIVER 19% (shocker!)
7-9%: Windham, Burke ($60), King Pine, Middlebury, Bolton($64), Tenny($49)
4-5%: Berkshire East, Okemo, Mt. Snow ($75), Bromley($66), Jay Peak($65)
2-3% Sugarbush ($75), Smuggs, Sunapee, Ascutney, Hunter
No change: Magic($56), Wachusett, Saddleback($40), Dartmouth (How did I know to invite Magic and Saddleback to my club meetings????

While it's too early to say for sure, it seems like the bigger operators raised prices the least. Black/Maine and Granite just seem to be adjusting to the marketplace. I also wonder what the thinking is at MRG - $64 for a holiday ticket. Is the secret out? Raise it if you can!

 

[RootDKJ]

What do you use to track the year over year rates?

 

[riverc0il]

Biggest change: Granite Gorge (34%), Black (Maine) 25%, MAD RIVER 19% (shocker!)

No shocker there. This has been a big issue with shareholders. Many of whom (myself included) believe that the product is under priced considering the high value and demand has shown that ticket prices could certainly be increased to keep lines a little more in check and help better support the ski area. Mad River has a hard time staying in the black just like any other area (especially considering lack of slope side and four season income like most resorts have). While part of Mad River's goal is to keep good skiing affordable, lift ticket prices have not increased on par with other similar mountains in the past few years.

The problem with Mad River pricing is that when the skiing is good, it is really good. And when it is bad, it is really bad. Although it would be difficult to implement, I think conditions dependent pricing could be implemented. Would require a lot of number crunching and statistics that just are not there yet, but I think it could be done.

Meanwhile, buy your Mad Cards while you can!

Tenney at a buck under $50 is a bit hard to swallow. The $100 season passes from this summer was almost definitely a badly needed cash infusion during a tough financial period. When you look at Mad River charging $64 holiday, you can look at that as only $15 more than Tenney and it is a virtual bargain. Only four more than Burke. Eleven bucks less than.... Sunapee, Ascutney, and Hunter (!!!!). And that $64 is about on par for what places like Cannon and Wildcat were charging last year. Honestly... when you compare the product and the price... Mad River has been under priced for a number of years now... especially with the Mad Card option.

 

[billski]

What do you use to track the year over year rates?

a spreadsheet, what else?

 

[RootDKJ]

a spreadsheet, what else?

Of course do you have that posted online anywhere?

 

[skiboarder]

No shocker there. This has been a big issue with shareholders. Many of whom (myself included) believe that the product is under priced considering the high value and demand has shown that ticket prices could certainly be increased to keep lines a little more in check and help better support the ski area. Mad River has a hard time staying in the black just like any other area (especially considering lack of slope side and four season income like most resorts have). While part of Mad River's goal is to keep good skiing affordable, lift ticket prices have not increased on par with other similar mountains in the past few years.

The problem with Mad River pricing is that when the skiing is good, it is really good. And when it is bad, it is really bad. Although it would be difficult to implement, I think conditions dependent pricing could be implemented. Would require a lot of number crunching and statistics that just are not there yet, but I think it could be done.

Meanwhile, buy your Mad Cards while you can!

Tenney at a buck under $50 is a bit hard to swallow. The $100 season passes from this summer was almost definitely a badly needed cash infusion during a tough financial period. When you look at Mad River charging $64 holiday, you can look at that as only $15 more than Tenney and it is a virtual bargain. Only four more than Burke. Eleven bucks less than.... Sunapee, Ascutney, and Hunter (!!!!). And that $64 is about on par for what places like Cannon and Wildcat were charging last year. Honestly... when you compare the product and the price... Mad River has been under priced for a number of years now... especially with the Mad Card option.

That's a really good point about MRG.

 

[billski]

shock and awe

No shocker there.

Steve,
The shocker is not in the rationale or strategy, but in it's execution. So much, so fast. Why not bring it up over a 2-3 season period? It's not so noticeable.

With regards to lines, I've never found them to be intolerable. As the day goes on, it's not really a problem. (Maybe that's because I grew up waiting in 30-minute lines...)

 

[Geoff]

Here is a sampler. Remember, not all resorts have posted including Kmart and $teaux.

Killington is $82 on Saturdays & holidays. $79 the rest of the time.

 

[riverc0il]

Steve,
The shocker is not in the rationale or strategy, but in it's execution. So much, so fast. Why not bring it up over a 2-3 season period? It's not so noticeable.

I see your point and that was not how I read it, thanks for clarifying. If you look at their rates these last few years, I still don't think even the big jump is a too huge shock. Compared to other comparable ski areas, Mad River's prices had not increased much and the product was under priced, especially compared to other ski areas offering a similar experience. So look at it once big price increase instead of three years of $3 price increases like other comparable resorts. Same comparable increase, just done all at once.

 

[billski]

I see your point and that was not how I read it, thanks for clarifying. If you look at their rates these last few years, I still don't think even the big jump is a too huge shock. Compared to other comparable ski areas, Mad River's prices had not increased much and the product was under priced, especially compared to other ski areas offering a similar experience. So look at it once big price increase instead of three years of $3 price increases like other comparable resorts. Same comparable increase, just done all at once.

Even with the increase, it's a good value as you describe. Their price is still under nearby direct-vertical-competitor Sugarbush, as it should be, having a smaller infrastructure. That said, they don't compete in the same market in other areas. Of course, they really don't compete in the mainstream vacation market - Bring the family with 2.5 kids, spend a few days, drop a G or two, condos, rentals and "convenience, convenience, convenience." So for who does the market bear? The vast majority of families at MRG are shareholders or so it seems. However, I would suspect that the vast majority of single-ticket buyers are day-trippers (maybe some of those even staying at Sugarbush?)

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

a 4% increase is nothing..most people get at least a 4% raise..

 

[billski]

Stowe

I find it very curious (but not surprising) that Stowe has posted everything but the single day price.
All the other area either have all their prices posted or nothing yet.

"If you must ask, you can't afford it" so the old saying goes...

 

[JasonE]

a 4% increase is nothing..most people get at least a 4% raise..

In what world? I don't know anyone who gets a 4% raise every year. Most of the people I know get between 2% and 3%. Heck, I know some people who don't get raises at all (or get 25 or 50 cents every couple years).

I know that I got about 5% raise two years ago, but last year didn't get a raise at all. This year I got just under 3% raise. Don't know what next year will bring. My wife's work gives either 1%, 2%, or 3% depending on your performance review. My father's company does a 2.5% raise for a good performance review or a 3% raise for an exceptional review. My mother just had her salary reduced (it came down to everyone takes a paycut or they would have to do layoffs, so everyone agreed to take the paycut to prevent people losing jobs). Several people I know have been laid off this year, and I know several people who did not get raises at all.

Maybe a 4% raise is standard in your industry, but I know no one who is getting 4% raises right now.

 

[deadheadskier]

In what world? I don't know anyone who gets a 4% raise every year. Most of the people I know get between 2% and 3%. Heck, I know some people who don't get raises at all (or get 25 or 50 cents every couple years).

I know that I got about 5% raise two years ago, but last year didn't get a raise at all. This year I got just under 3% raise. Don't know what next year will bring. My wife's work gives either 1%, 2%, or 3% depending on your performance review. My father's company does a 2.5% raise for a good performance review or a 3% raise for an exceptional review. My mother just had her salary reduced (it came down to everyone takes a paycut or they would have to do layoffs, so everyone agreed to take the paycut to prevent people losing jobs). Several people I know have been laid off this year, and I know several people who did not get raises at all.

Maybe a 4% raise is standard in your industry, but I know no one who is getting 4% raises right now.

I did get a 7% raise this year, but I'd be surprised if I got anything higher than 2-3% next year no matter how well I finish out the fiscal year. The first year was more a test on me, which I passed and was rewarded for. The average raise I've received from employers over the years has been in the 3% range. This is a major factor in my decision to switch positions as often as I have over my career, some would argue too much and I would tend to agree. It's easier to achieve higher earnings though switching companies than it is internally for most people. The downfall to this is that the real benefit of staying with a company (increased paid time off) is not realized.

While I'm happy that I'm making nearly 150% more than what I did coming out of college at my first 'real' job, it has come at an expense. Typically the bigger reward by spending a long period of time with the same employer doesn't come in the form of money, but rather increasing amounts of paid time off. I've never had much PTO because of my decisions.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

In what world? I don't know anyone who gets a 4% raise every year. Most of the people I know get between 2% and 3%. Heck, I know some people who don't get raises at all (or get 25 or 50 cents every couple years).

I know that I got about 5% raise two years ago, but last year didn't get a raise at all. This year I got just under 3% raise. Don't know what next year will bring. My wife's work gives either 1%, 2%, or 3% depending on your performance review. My father's company does a 2.5% raise for a good performance review or a 3% raise for an exceptional review. My mother just had her salary reduced (it came down to everyone takes a paycut or they would have to do layoffs, so everyone agreed to take the paycut to prevent people losing jobs). Several people I know have been laid off this year, and I know several people who did not get raises at all.

Maybe a 4% raise is standard in your industry, but I know no one who is getting 4% raises right now.

Where I work a 5% raise is the lowest..but if we have a really good year it's 10-12%..but we are a growing business with only 4 employees..we don't have a retirement fund but as long as business is good we get a healthy end of the year bonus..I guess I have it good..although I make less money than most of my friends but I also work less...

 

[JasonE]

Where I work a 5% raise is the lowest..but if we have a really good year it's 10-12%..but we are a growing business with only 4 employees..we don't have a retirement fund but as long as business is good we get a healthy end of the year bonus..I guess I have it good..although I make less money than most of my friends but I also work less...

I would say you have it very, very good. The only industries I can think of off the top of my head where a 5%+ raise is standard is if it's negotiated into a long-term union contract - and even then, I'd be willing to bet the next time the contract's up for renewal if the economy is still this bad that figure will drop.

I'm not saying no one gets high raises - I'm just saying it's not the norm, especially right now. In my experience, when business is good, wealth gets shared. When business is bad, business owners tend to hold the money close, meaning far lower raises. And right now, virtually across the board, business is bad.

 

[snowmonster]

I find it very curious (but not surprising) that Stowe has posted everything but the single day price.
All the other area either have all their prices posted or nothing yet.

"If you must ask, you can't afford it" so the old saying goes...

Stowe hasn't been posting their single day price in years. I guess they want you to make a holiday of it or they really want to discourage riff-raff day-skiers like me. Also, after you've travelled 4 hours, an $80+ day ticket will certainly shock you but not stop you from buying it.

 

[severine]

Where I work a 5% raise is the lowest..but if we have a really good year it's 10-12%..but we are a growing business with only 4 employees..we don't have a retirement fund but as long as business is good we get a healthy end of the year bonus..I guess I have it good..although I make less money than most of my friends but I also work less...

Even when I worked for a municipality with a union, we never got raises that good. Generally 2.5%-3.5%. That's it.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I would say you have it very, very good. The only industries I can think of off the top of my head where a 5%+ raise is standard is if it's negotiated into a long-term union contract - and even then, I'd be willing to bet the next time the contract's up for renewal if the economy is still this bad that figure will drop.

I'm not saying no one gets high raises - I'm just saying it's not the norm, especially right now. In my experience, when business is good, wealth gets shared. When business is bad, business owners tend to hold the money close, meaning far lower raises. And right now, virtually across the board, business is bad.

One of the funeral directors who sells monuments for us hasn't received a raise in 4 years..that's equivilent to getting a sizeable paycut..to add insult to injury..the owner of the funeral home just bought a new Ferrari..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Stowe hasn't been posting their single day price in years. I guess they want you to make a holiday of it or they really want to discourage riff-raff day-skiers like me. Also, after you've travelled 4 hours, an $80+ day ticket will certainly shock you but not stop you from buying it.

Stowe does have decent multi-day pricing and their spring prices are great. I remember paying something like $140 for a 4 day ticket the first week in April..