2010-11 Season Pass: Blue Mt. vs. Camelback vs. Shawnee

[jaywbigred]

I am contemplating buying a season pass to one of these 3 mountains, along with a buddy of mine. We want to ski at night, midweek, at least once a week, for the duration of the season.

Here are our considerations. Keep in mind that as of next season, all 3 resorts will have high speed lifts installed, and that all offer night skiing:

Blue Mt - cost: $379 (midweek season pass).

Pros: commitment to seeding bumps proven this year; good lighting of those bumps for night skiing; driving route, though long, has alternative routes if there is traffic; 1082' of vert.

Cons: farther drive than the other two; compared to the cost of a midweek night ticket with our student discount (both grad students), it will take 15-16 trips to break even/make money ($379/($34 - $10)), no Nights-Only pass; must buy pass by END OF THIS SEASON!

Camelback - cost: $379 (midweek season pass)

Pros: commitment to seeding bumps proven this year and last year; proximity; 800' vert (sorta); I like the set-up of the beginner's terrain park;

Cons: possible traffic on Route 80 and no good alternative routes from NJ; compared to the cost of a midweek night ticket with online discounts, it will take 13 trips to break even ($379/ ($32 - $3)); the best bump run is located on a trail that imo doesn't work well with the lift system (Lower Cleo...requires hiking/poling every run); no way to connect upper mountain bump run with lower mountain bump run (unless configuration is changed for next year); no Nights Only option; no student discounts for grad students; poor lighting on current bump trails (and throughout, imo); poor track record in closing down night skiing earlier than other mountains; must buy by MARCH 31st!.

Shawnee - cost $199 (Nights Only season pass)

Pros: cost(!!!); proximity (!); Nights Only option; Nights Only pass presumably includes weekends; compared to cost of night ticket, it will take only 6 trips to break even; management perhaps signaling a willingness to commit to bumps by letting some trails bump up this year; nostalgia (this is where I learned to ski); do not have to buy pass until SEPTEMBER 20th!!!

Cons: no proven track record of commitment to seeded bumps; possible traffic on Route 80 and no good alternative routes from NJ; no student discount (perhaps alleviated by Night Only option); only 700' vert.


What do you guys think? We are leaning towards Shawnee at this point. However, before I pull the trigger (and if they don't close), I need to get out there for a night just to survey the lay of the land. Hopefully they will be open midweek next week.

How did you guys at your local mountains get management to commit to seeding 1+ bump runs? In an ideal world, we'd get a season pass for Shawnee and get management to commit to something like "Sure, next season we can seed moguls on skier's right of Arrowhead, top to bottom!"

Thanks for any input. I know Blue and Camelback have their staunch supporters here on AZ, though I don't think we have anyone advocating for Shawnee...

 

[RootDKJ]

First of all...I love Shawnee, because that's where I learned how to ski. Shawnee will always be special to me for that reason.

Blue
Pros - Free Stowe points card ($75 value) which gets you $59 Sun-Fri Stowe lift tickets.
Cons - Closes before Camelback (but if they offer the Alien program is this really a big deal?)

 

[gorgonzola]

for my $379 i'd do blue over cb, i like the terrain and lifts better, especially if blue's bumps this year are a sign of things to come. i haven't ski'd shawnee since college (25 years ouch!) but thats a pretty good deal... dunno if it helps but i run our church club and we do 6 visit blue flex passes. this year they were $130, good weekdays then all days after prez day (pm me if you want some more details) you could do a shwanee/blue combo!

 

[goldsbar]

(caveat - I haven't skied Camelback)

If you're close to Shawnee and in N NJ, Blue is the farthest as you indicated and you still have to deal with Rt 80 traffic or somehow cut down to Rt 78. You list Blue's vertical as a plus but it's the shortest 1082' I've ever skied. Maybe it was the headwind but the mountain skied really slow. Bumps are a definite step in the right direction but they were nothing great (I recall a thread earlier this year about driving to Blue instead of VT for the bumps - don't do it!). As with your Camelback comment, you had to choose one bump run or the other.

Based on the comments that Camelback also has bump runs and it's closer, I'd go with Camelback or alternatively Shawnee if you're into park stuff as they seemed to have a decent park trail.

 

[jaywbigred]

(caveat - I haven't skied Camelback)

If you're close to Shawnee and in N NJ, Blue is the farthest as you indicated and you still have to deal with Rt 80 traffic or somehow cut down to Rt 78. You list Blue's vertical as a plus but it's the shortest 1082' I've ever skied. Maybe it was the headwind but the mountain skied really slow. Bumps are a definite step in the right direction but they were nothing great (I recall a thread earlier this year about driving to Blue instead of VT for the bumps - don't do it!). As with your Camelback comment, you had to choose one bump run or the other.

Based on the comments that Camelback also has bump runs and it's closer, I'd go with Camelback or alternatively Shawnee if you're into park stuff as they seemed to have a decent park trail.

I work right off 78 so getting to Blue isn't that bad. I have to strongly disagree with you regarding their bumps. If you look at my TR from last week, you can see clearly, despite the poor picture quality, that their bump fields are the real deal, nicely seeded, and at this point, deeply troughed. Great lines all over the place. But it is far, and not cheap. Gorgonzola's ideas are intriguing, however.

I am trying to get into park stuff; if I had a season pass to one of these places, I would prob spend more time in there. We shall see...unfortunately, Blue and Camelback have unreasonable deadlines and may force my hand to pick Shawnee before I am ready.

@Sundown crew: how did you guys initiate contact w management about getting seeded bumps?

 

[RootDKJ]

I work right off 78 so getting to Blue isn't that bad. I have to strongly disagree with you regarding their bumps. If you look at my TR from last week, you can see clearly, despite the poor picture quality, that their bump fields are the real deal, nicely seeded, and at this point, deeply troughed. Great lines all over the place. But it is far, and not cheap. Gorgonzola's ideas are intriguing, however.

I am trying to get into park stuff; if I had a season pass to one of these places, I would prob spend more time in there. We shall see...unfortunately, Blue and Camelback have unreasonable deadlines and may force my hand to pick Shawnee before I am ready.

@Sundown crew: how did you guys initiate contact w management about getting seeded bumps?

If you work off 78 (as I do), then I'd bet that your travel time to Blue will roughly be about the same time as it would take you to get to Camelback (or Mountain Creek).

I'll admit that I'm a huge Blue fanboy, and their management has gotten better over last season. The people I've met and ski with from PASR and AZ at Blue are really a lot of fun most of the time. I'm really glad to be a part of a regular crew there.

 

[jaywbigred]

If you work off 78 (as I do), then I'd bet that your travel time to Blue will roughly be about the same time as it would take you to get to Camelback (or Mountain Creek).

I'll admit that I'm a huge Blue fanboy, and their management has gotten better over last season. The people I've met and ski with from PASR and AZ at Blue are really a lot of fun most of the time. I'm really glad to be a part of a regular crew there.

It is close, I'll concede. With average traffic, though, I think Camelback is 10-15 closer. Small, I know, but 30 minutes a night x 12-14 weeks a year = 6-7 extra hrs of skiing, which is like 2 whole extra nights

 

[RootDKJ]

It is close, I'll concede. With average traffic, though, I think Camelback is 10-15 closer. Small, I know, but 30 minutes a night x 12-14 weeks a year = 6-7 extra hrs of skiing, which is like 2 whole extra nights

Blue is open 1 hour later. Small, I know, but 60 minutes a night x 12-14 weeks a year = 12-14 extra hrs of skiing, which is like 4 whole extra nights :beer:

 

[goldsbar]

Ah, didn't realize you worked off Rt 78. That makes the comparison tougher. Regarding the bumps, when I went in mid Feb (plenty of snow but no fresh for a week or two) they had just two partial trails.

What are the seasons like and the quality of the snowmaking overall (i.e. boilerplate groomers or actually still carveable at night)? That's probably what would sway the decision for me at this point.

 

[4aprice]

If your closer to the I-78 corridor then I would think the drive to Blue would be much easier (current bridge issues aside). I'm just off 80 and west of 287 so Camelback is a much easier drive for me. One advantage that Camelback has over the other two is elevation. That may sound triffle but I've seen rain change to snow at Tannersville, seen Camelback make snow when the other two can't(that happened this past Dec), and FWIW I feel keeps the snow better.

It was a very good winter in the Pocono's and I thought the skiing was excellent. Though I didn't get to Shawnee, I enjoyed Blue and like what they are doing there. Lighting aside, and like I said I really don't night ski too much, Asp and Lower Cleo for the most part have been pretty fun in the bump department. Still pushing management to seed a part of Cliffhanger next year. It was dicussed at the pass holders party and I got some backing from some other pass holders.

I will say this Camelback has been a great home mountain for our family. It has fully severed the purpose me and my wife were looking for when we bought passes in the first place. We've enjoyed our son being a member of the race team and have met some wonderful skiing families through it. My daughter works as an instructor and for the most part loves her job.

Oh yea, just got to add this Camelback has the best lodge and bar.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[jaywbigred]

Blue is open 1 hour later. Small, I know, but 60 minutes a night x 12-14 weeks a year = 12-14 extra hrs of skiing, which is like 4 whole extra nights :beer:

That is a very good point. As I wrote in the cons, Camelback shuts those lights off early, which is a huge pain.

At this point, it is probably between Blue and Shawnee. Camelback would be in the running if weekends were in play, but they really aren't...

Ah, didn't realize you worked off Rt 78. That makes the comparison tougher. Regarding the bumps, when I went in mid Feb (plenty of snow but no fresh for a week or two) they had just two partial trails.

What are the seasons like and the quality of the snowmaking overall (i.e. boilerplate groomers or actually still carveable at night)? That's probably what would sway the decision for me at this point.

Well, it was probably the same 2 trails that I skied, Challenger and Barney's Bumps, but those 2 half trails are, comparatively, a lot. They were decent in terms of length, and the lines were good, so that is enough to keep me entertained for 3 hrs. That challenger had the kickers from the competition still open was just a bonus.

 

[RootDKJ]

One advantage that Camelback has over the other two is elevation. That may sound triffle but I've seen rain change to snow at Tannersville, seen Camelback make snow when the other two can't(that happened this past Dec), and FWIW I feel keeps the snow better.

Oh yea, just got to add this Camelback has the best lodge and bar.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

Two good points. Camelback's opening day product was far superior to the piss poor opening performance Blue showed. I really don't visit the bar at Blue because I park in the valley and the bar is in the Summit Lodge.

 

[gorgonzola]

weeknights/race nights i usually park up top and i think tarponhead will attest some tasty beers were had!

 

[tarponhead]

weeknights/race nights i usually park up top and i think tarponhead will attest some tasty beers were had!

Affirmative, good company too!

Alex's point about CB's elevation is a good one and CB's opening day conditions were >>> Blue's. Also CB's infrastructure is >> Blues (lodge etc).

That said, I will be laying out the 1k+ $ for me and my two boys at Blue for our season passes. Good people and descent pocono terrain. That plus the VIP line on the quad :beer:

 

[RootDKJ]

That plus the VIP line on the quad :beer:

Jayw, tarponhead brings up another good point. When it's mid-winter and all the local schools are running bus trips for night skiing you will appreciate skiing right on to the lift via the VIP Season Pass holders line.

 

[4aprice]

Affirmative, good company too!

Alex's point about CB's elevation is a good one and CB's opening day conditions were >>> Blue's. Also CB's infrastructure is >> Blues (lodge etc).

That said, I will be laying out the 1k+ $ for me and my two boys at Blue for our season passes. Good people and descent pocono terrain. That plus the VIP line on the quad :beer:

They did a nice job with that new patio at Blue. That looks like a nice place to sit and tan and drink. Camelbacks deck is awesome too. (I've put it to good use). :beer:

I think for Jay's question and his revelation that he works off I-78 and the extra hour at night, makes Blue his best bet. I kinda had the impression that he worked in maybe Morristown (between 78 and 80) and would have a better travel choice. There are 2 cross roads that I know from 78 to 80, US-206 and NJ 31 both 2 lane and probably slow as hell in rush hour.

I'd be a little careful with Shawnee as one of their slogans is that they are "beginner country". Don't know if they would be big seeders of bumps but with the new lift maybe I'm wrong.

Snow at Camelback was holding up well this morning. They couldn't open Asp till 10:30 because of firm snow but once they did it was nice. Amazing cause down here in New Jersey you would think it had stayed soft all night.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[jaywbigred]

They did a nice job with that new patio at Blue. That looks like a nice place to sit and tan and drink. Camelbacks deck is awesome too. (I've put it to good use). :beer:

I think for Jay's question and his revelation that he works off I-78 and the extra hour at night, makes Blue his best bet. I kinda had the impression that he worked in maybe Morristown (between 78 and 80) and would have a better travel choice. There are 2 cross roads that I know from 78 to 80, US-206 and NJ 31 both 2 lane and probably slow as hell in rush hour.

I'd be a little careful with Shawnee as one of their slogans is that they are "beginner country". Don't know if they would be big seeders of bumps but with the new lift maybe I'm wrong.

Snow at Camelback was holding up well this morning. They couldn't open Asp till 10:30 because of firm snow but once they did it was nice. Amazing cause down here in New Jersey you would think it had stayed soft all night.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

I work in New Providence just off 78, but it also only takes me 5-6 minutes to get to 24, which is a quick scoot to 80. It took me 1:25ish to get to Blue this year on a Wednesday and I left at 3:30ish. I left for Camelback on a Thursday, I believe, at 5:15, went home to change, and made it to Camelback in about 1:05. Maybe that was a light traffic day for some reason, dunno.

 

[RootDKJ]

There are 2 cross roads that I know from 78 to 80, US-206 and NJ 31 both 2 lane and probably slow as hell in rush hour.

I-287 and PA-33 also intersect both roads, 33 probably the better choice.

 

[jaywbigred]

I-287 and PA-33 also intersect both roads, 33 probably the better choice.

Right, what I left out of mine was quick shoot 24-287-80.

 

[4aprice]

Camelback - cost: $379 (midweek season pass)

Pros: commitment to seeding bumps proven this year and last year; proximity; 800' vert (sorta); I like the set-up of the beginner's terrain park;

Cons: possible traffic on Route 80 and no good alternative routes from NJ; compared to the cost of a midweek night ticket with online discounts, it will take 13 trips to break even ($379/ ($32 - $3)); the best bump run is located on a trail that imo doesn't work well with the lift system (Lower Cleo...requires hiking/poling every run); no way to connect upper mountain bump run with lower mountain bump run (unless configuration is changed for next year); no Nights Only option; no student discounts for grad students; poor lighting on current bump trails (and throughout, imo); poor track record in closing down night skiing earlier than other mountains; must buy by MARCH 31st!.

1 slight correction. Lower Cleo can be skied without hiking/poling. Instead of trying to make it back to Sullivan quad ski the end of Cleo to Sun Bowl to Glen Lift. At the top of Glen lift there is a work road straight across Marc Antony that puts you right at the top of the bumps. Because Glen lift accesses the park it is open 95% of the time and management did a good job of keeping that road open this season as opposed to the past when they closed it alot. That's how I do laps of Lower Cleo bumps.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ