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2018/19 Skier visits

slatham

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Flash report from NSAA is over 59 million, up 11% YOY.

Given all the noise about EPIC and Ikon-ic crowding this year I would have expected higher. Massive snow year out West, good to very good year in the East, strong economy, etc.
 

drjeff

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Flash report from NSAA is over 59 million, up 11% YOY.

Given all the noise about EPIC and Ikon-ic crowding this year I would have expected higher. Massive snow year out West, good to very good year in the East, strong economy, etc.

In the end, if one can (could) look area to area with visitation numbers, I suspect that you'd see that the multi resort passes such as the Epic and Ikon ended up doing more of a lateral shift in skier visits where you'll see an uptick at the Epic/Ikon resorts and some decreases, or flat numbers at some non Epic/Ikon resorts.

As was reported in the latest Ski Area Management Magazine (which arrived in my mailbox yesterday) there was an article that looked at the Epic/Ikon effect with respect to some areas (The Utah areas, Jackson Hole, Stowe among others were mentioned) where there were numerous complaints from the locals, who often had to get the more expensive passes since the multi resort passes had their home mountains on limited number of days often, that while the Epic/Ikon passes did ad visits (the 10-15% number was common), that the number of "locals" skiing on non Epic/Ikon passes, because of the good snow year, was up often in the 20-30% range over the previos year. So it's not all about the Epic and Ikon, there are likely many factors adding to the numbers across the country
 

cdskier

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If people have the epic or Ikon passes do skier visits really matter? Is that a good measurement of revenue or success?

Fair question...but then again, wouldn't that question also apply to any season pass-holders and not just Epic/Ikon ones?
 

urungus

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If people have the epic or Ikon passes do skier visits really matter? Is that a good measurement of revenue or success?

Most visits will result in some sort of revenue for the resort, even if lift ticket is already paid for: food purchases, a few drinks, maybe take a lesson, rent some equipment, stay in the hotel, buy something in the gift shop, etc
 

urungus

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Also do the affiliated resorts (on the pass but not owned by the parent) get some sort of payment from Epic/Icon for each skier visit ?
 

gladerider

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there has been a few articles written about the skier visit increase this past season. while ikon/epic did have an impact, they attributed the increase to one of the best snow in recent memory. net of it all is that the increased business is good for the industry period. we won't really know the true impact of the ikon/epic until we have a bad snow season to balance it off.
 

shwilly

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Right I just was going with the topic. So I am saying Skier visits is not the best thing to go with to measure success.

It doesn't give you the whole story for operating P&L, but I'd say it's very important for the health of the sport and industry. The more people have more good days, the more people will fall in love with skiing. Many of the fanatics getting tons of days on their passes are buying real estate, teaching their kids to ski, and bringing friends along to buy day tickets. Converting more fanatics is a good thing!

I don't know how noisy skier visits are from year to year, but in general an 11% year-over-year increase in a mature industry is fantastic.
 

slatham

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Right I just was going with the topic. So I am saying Skier visits is not the best thing to go with to measure success.


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Agreed there are some major short comings, but I am not aware of another metric, available to the public, that broadly represents the health of the ski industry.
 

abc

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While we don't know the precise numbers, we know the basic just from human nature.

1) Good snow year, more people ski more days. (basically, if you had a good time, you want to go again)

2) New pass means new area to check out. A.K.A. "lateral shift". Mind you, the shift is TO mountains included in the new pass.

So there's no doubt Ikon is responsible for some of the increase. But we don't quite know how to separate that increase from the increase due to good snow year. All we know is the combo is causing significant crowding in some mountains, while other mountains are handling the increase much more gracefully.
 

BenedictGomez

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I'd say it's very important for the health of the sport and industry. The more people have more good days, the more people will fall in love with skiing. Many of the fanatics getting tons of days on their passes are buying real estate, teaching their kids to ski, and bringing friends along to buy day tickets. Converting more fanatics is a good thing! I don't know how noisy skier visits are from year to year, but in general an 11% year-over-year increase in a mature industry is fantastic.

I doubt many people are, "falling in love with skiing" at $169 single-day lift ticket prices.

That 11% YoY increase is almost certainly driven by locals & EPIC/IKON, not by new participants.
 

mister moose

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I don't know how noisy skier visits are from year to year, but in general an 11% year-over-year increase in a mature industry is fantastic.

I took the time to put this graph together 9 years ago. You can see the number of skier visits to VT has been bouncing around 4 million per year. I haven't done an update, but news flash, the number of skier visits for the 17-18 season was...

Historic_skier_visits.jpg

3.97 million visits. If you're not good at math, it's the same.

There's been variations due to the economy, big gas price hiccups, or bad snow years, but getting over the hiccups isn't growth.

Vermont skier visits for 18-19 aren't out yet. One thing we might see as the cheap multi mountain passes take hold is a true increase in visits. More skiers owning season passes might well turn into more visits per skier.
 
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Smellytele

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I took the time to put this graph together 9 years ago. You can see the number of skier visits to VT has been bouncing around 4 million per year. I haven't done an update, but news flash, the number of skier visits for the 17-18 season was...

View attachment 25238

3.97 million visits. If you're not good at math, it's the same.

Vermont skier visits for 18-19 aren't out yet. One thing we might see as the cheap multi mountain passes take hold is a true increase in visits. More skiers owning season passes might well turn into more visits per skier.

More visits per pass holder means less money per visit. The optimal scenario is season pass holders not visiting often at all and selling more day tickets.


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skiur

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More visits per pass holder means less money per visit. The optimal scenario is season pass holders not visiting often at all and selling more day tickets.


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Season pass holders still spend money when they go to the hill, why wouldnt you want them there? I would say the optimal scenario is more day tickets and more season pass holders. They can have their cake and eat it too.
 

abc

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“A bird in hand is...”

Season pass is worth a lot more than their numerical value because it’s upfront.

You can also use that money to pay for stuff. While day tickets don’t come in till the day the skier shows up... or not show up at all (in which case you don’t get the money at all)
 

Hawk

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Flash report from NSAA is over 59 million, up 11% YOY.

Given all the noise about EPIC and Ikon-ic crowding this year I would have expected higher. Massive snow year out West, good to very good year in the East, strong economy, etc.
That is 11% my friend. They went from around 52 Million visits to 59 Million. That is a huge increase as far as skier visits go. I wish all my investments did 11%.
 
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“A bird in hand is...”

Season pass is worth a lot more than their numerical value because it’s upfront.

You can also use that money to pay for stuff. While day tickets don’t come in till the day the skier shows up... or not show up at all (in which case you don’t get the money at all)
People also buy their passes before they know if it will be a good winter. This locks in a minimum amount of revenue that the operator receives and puts a floor on how bad lean winters get.

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