2018-2019 Sunday River

[machski]

"Just an FYI, they replaced the water line from the pond to the pump house this summer, doubling water capacity, though they only added one pump so they can't yet take full advantage of that capacity."

Maybe you missed this statement from me, so I'll re-post it.

It is only December 13th, and look what we have. Granted mother nature is the largest part of it. But look at what they are doing snow making wise. It is so much more than they did last year. I am plenty happy with what they are doing. I was at Bretton Woods Tuesday. They only had half of their trails open and maybe half of those were groomed. Basically 1/4 and that's being generous. The river has 55 out of 135 groomed. About 40%. Just my perspective. (I admit it, I am cheer leading for the River!)

Again, very hard to compare year over year. We would not be this far along without the generous help from mother nature. They have benefitted for sure by being able to run full throttle every day this season, which they weren't able to last year due to water feed line breaks. With all that said, I still don't think it is much off their usual aggressiveness. We have the weather for sure and they are taking advantage of it. Plenty of terrain to cover yet by snowmaking.

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[Jully]

Again, very hard to compare year over year. We would not be this far along without the generous help from mother nature. They have benefitted for sure by being able to run full throttle every day this season, which they weren't able to last year due to water feed line breaks. With all that said, I still don't think it is much off their usual aggressiveness. We have the weather for sure and they are taking advantage of it. Plenty of terrain to cover yet by snowmaking.

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One year doesn't make a trend, but the ingredients of full staff+seemingly reliable infrastructure (though on mountain pipes weren't changed at all to my knowledge) are now there. Leaves mountain philosophy to really begin to shine and that is where I trust Sunday River management.

Not quite an industry trailblazer right now, but everything points to a big step forward this year even beyond the sheer results.

 

[Hawk]

Again, very hard to compare year over year. We would not be this far along without the generous help from mother nature. They have benefitted for sure by being able to run full throttle every day this season, which they weren't able to last year due to water feed line breaks. With all that said, I still don't think it is much off their usual aggressiveness. We have the weather for sure and they are taking advantage of it. Plenty of terrain to cover yet by snowmaking.

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I'll say this, the snowmaking is nothing like when Les Owned the place. They would have guns going 24/7 8 trails at a time and they would have extra compressors in the barker parking lot. Things went much faster. That is the issue with your new corporate owner Boyne. Budgets Budgets.

 

[Smellytele]

I'll say this, the snowmaking is nothing like when Les Owned the place. They would have guns going 24/7 8 trails at a time and they would have extra compressors in the barker parking lot. Things went much faster. That is the issue with your new corporate owner Boyne. Budgets Budgets.

They don't want to go the way ASC did...

 

[Hawk]

They don't want to go the way ASC did...

I am not talking about ASC. I am taking about 1987 to 1995 and a little beyond. Sunday River was the fastest growing and most profitable area in the east at that time. I will agree that forming ASC and the start of the huge debt financing era did him in. But when I skied there from 86 onward we got a new lift or mountain area almost every year and they blew snow like no one else. I skied there 60 to 100 days year and know what I experienced.

 

[machski]

One year doesn't make a trend, but the ingredients of full staff+seemingly reliable infrastructure (though on mountain pipes weren't changed at all to my knowledge) are now there. Leaves mountain philosophy to really begin to shine and that is where I trust Sunday River management.

Not quite an industry trailblazer right now, but everything points to a big step forward this year even beyond the sheer results.

That it does. Been an amazing season, just too much help from Ma Nature this year to pile on too much credit to mountain ops yet.

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[Riverveteran]

Do you ski there now? I feel like skier numbers are way down. Its probably harder to gauge with all the pass products but I feel like the place is a ghost town most of the time. Other than Saturdays, things are really quiet.

I think their snowmaking is on a good pace. They really need to invest money in infrastructure, lifts and lodging. Lifts are terrible, lodges gross no where near modern standards.

I am not talking about ASC. I am taking about 1987 to 1995 and a little beyond. Sunday River was the fastest growing and most profitable area in the east at that time. I will agree that forming ASC and the start of the huge debt financing era did him in. But when I skied there from 86 onward we got a new lift or mountain area almost every year and they blew snow like no one else. I skied there 60 to 100 days year and know what I experienced.

 

[Riverveteran]

Last Sunday ski on every lift.

Fridays tend to busy as well, though they don't come anywhere near a Saturday. Friends tell me Sunday afternoons are pretty quiet.

 

[machski]

Do you ski there now? I feel like skier numbers are way down. Its probably harder to gauge with all the pass products but I feel like the place is a ghost town most of the time. Other than Saturdays, things are really quiet.

I think their snowmaking is on a good pace. They really need to invest money in infrastructure, lifts and lodging. Lifts are terrible, lodges gross no where near modern standards.

Skier numbers are down from their peak in the mid 90's for sure. But still around 500K a year. It is harder to tell when it is crazy busy now because of how many pods and lifts we have to spread them out. Lodges could use some love over the long term, they aren't good awful yet. Lifts, well that could use some investment (ahm, Barker to start). Glad to see the snowmaking getting the love first. It's what put the place on the map. They need to get that back to game changer level to redraw peak skier visits IMHO. They used to draw big numbers in the early 90's with just 1 HSQ (Barker in it's original Yan configuration!)

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[Smellytele]

I am not talking about ASC. I am taking about 1987 to 1995 and a little beyond. Sunday River was the fastest growing and most profitable area in the east at that time. I will agree that forming ASC and the start of the huge debt financing era did him in. But when I skied there from 86 onward we got a new lift or mountain area almost every year and they blew snow like no one else. I skied there 60 to 100 days year and know what I experienced.

I skied there a lot 1989-1997 when it was expanding as well. Before the forming of ASC he must have been leveraging as well though just not as much as the ASC years.

 

[machski]

I skied there a lot 1989-1997 when it was expanding as well. Before the forming of ASC he must have been leveraging as well though just not as much as the ASC years.

Not really at that point. SR's growth allowed him the ability to leverage build up ASC. Had he been highly leveraged on LBO holdings (when he had SR, Attitash and SB) I don't think he would have had the ability to form up ASC. Even with the loose lending practices in the late 90's.

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[Smellytele]

Not really at that point. SR's growth allowed him the ability to leverage build up ASC. Had he been highly leveraged on LBO holdings (when he had SR, Attitash and SB) I don't think he would have had the ability to form up ASC. Even with the loose lending practices in the late 90's.

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Wasn't saying highly leveraged but leveraging can lead to more leveraging to increase revenue.

 

[machski]

Wasn't saying highly leveraged but leveraging can lead to more leveraging to increase revenue.

I would think at some point, but my understanding was SR's growth was not leveraged with debt late into it's growth but prior to ASC being formed.

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[machski]

.

We've got a day of skiing available before the 1-2 inches of rain comes tomorrow and spoils our fun for a couple days. And it's pretty good right now!

And after this we will see how good and aggressive SR plans to be with the improved snowmaking water line. Holiday week, I pretty much expect every main trail to get recovered, including Oz.

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[Riverveteran]

I really hope you're right but I wouldn’t be surprised if they hit Heat and some of the steeps and continue expanding. We were in this position a few years ago and rather than resurface they went at Oz.

And after this we will see how good and aggressive SR plans to be with the improved snowmaking water line. Holiday week, I pretty much expect every main trail to get recovered, including Oz.

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[Edd]

Scored a free voucher for today which is a nice treat buuut this lift ticket line is slooooww


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[machski]

I really hope you're right but I wouldn’t be surprised if they hit Heat and some of the steeps and continue expanding. We were in this position a few years ago and rather than resurface they went at Oz.

Oz opened today. I had hoped they would wait til closer to the Holiday week or slightly into it to try and avoid the coming scenario. They don't like to groom out Oz so I am hoping their efforts don't go to waste and they just close it for the week after the r@!n.

With the cold coming in, they should be able to put a good recovering on and expand a bit. Mostly blacks left to hit now, so any would be welcomed after this nastiness.

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[Edd]

I hit Wildcat yesterday and SR today. Both amazing weather days for late December. Great sun and no wind. Glad I was able to grab them before the year is out.


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[Dickc]

I only had 2 1/2 hours today, so I headed over to Tin Woodsman and Lost Princess to ski on the whales. Very rewarding, challenged me at my level and for the life of me, I can't find that invisible line that separates Lost Princess from Tin Woodsman. I'm sure I crossed that line many times today! Groomers were good, but Oz was awesome!

LP used to be gladed, TW was an open trail. If you look close, there are a few stumps left. A bad Ice storm in the later 90's took out most of the trees. Same over on Emerald City and Eureka.

 

[deadheadskier]

While it can still be fun, OZ might be the most horrendous trail design f ups in New England skiing history. As I understand it, Les wanted to create a terrain pod with a western bowl type feel. Not a great plan for an area that averages 150" of snow a year.

I haven't skied that terrain for probably five years, but I was a passholder there 05-07 and know it well. I always felt they should rope off several large areas of terrain in Oz to allow trees to regrow.

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