2018-2019 Sunday River

[crazy]

LP used to be gladed, TW was an open trail. If you look close, there are a few stumps left. A bad Ice storm in the later 90's took out most of the trees. Same over on Emerald City and Eureka.

While it can still be fun, OZ might be the most horrendous trail design f ups in New England skiing history. As I understand it, Les wanted to create a terrain pod with a western bowl type feel. Not a great plan for an area that averages 150" of snow a year.

I'm confused. Did the Oz terrain pod turn out the way it did because of Les Otten's vision, a bad ice storm, or both?

I don't think it's the 150" of snow a year that makes it not a great plan. A handful of Western resorts only get about that much snow a year, including Lake Louise, Marmot Basin, and Sun Valley. The difference is that we have a maritime snowpack here in New England where snow preservation is not great thanks to thaw-freeze and rain not being uncommon. If Sunday River was on the continental divide, 150" would certainly be sufficient for "bowl skiing", with "bowl" in quotes because I've never thought of Oz as resembling a bowl, though now that you mention it I can kind of see it.

 

[machski]

I'm confused. Did the Oz terrain pod turn out the way it did because of Les Otten's vision, a bad ice storm, or both?

I don't think it's the 150" of snow a year that makes it not a great plan. A handful of Western resorts only get about that much snow a year, including Lake Louise, Marmot Basin, and Sun Valley. The difference is that we have a maritime snowpack here in New England where snow preservation is not great thanks to thaw-freeze and rain not being uncommon. If Sunday River was on the continental divide, 150" would certainly be sufficient for "bowl skiing", with "bowl" in quotes because I've never thought of Oz as resembling a bowl, though now that you mention it I can kind of see it.

Mostly due to Les's vision for the area. There were a few more trees on skiers right of LP, TW had more of a tree line on the left of the open run and Emerald City up high had better trees. But mostly it was cut too open. They could have left a few more healthy trees up and still made snow on Eureka, TW/LP. The biggest problem with the trails are the waterfall/flow sections, right at midtrail on LP/TW and a bout 2/3 down Eureka. Add wind scouring in due to how open it is, tough to hold natural in there now.

IMHO, the vision was not correct for that particular area or the East in general. Needed a lot more trees. A bit thinner gunside and a bit thicker as you move away would have been perfect. As an aside, these were cut with the intention of using SR7 ground guns, not the towers TW/LP has now.

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[skinowworklater]

I realize it's a labor intensive task, but perhaps they should experiment with snow portable snow fencing like Sunshine Village does above tree line? (Catch the snow before it's blown into the woods) :???:

 

[machski]

I realize it's a labor intensive task, but perhaps they should experiment with snow portable snow fencing like Sunshine Village does above tree line? (Catch the snow before it's blown into the woods) :???:

They have talked about a lot of things to try to make it better, including planting trees. But you would be unable to make snow where they do that and you'd need to keep skiers/risers away from them for a few years to let them take hold. Tough to do with an open boundary to boundary policy. So nothing has happened (other than Poppy fields, which is awesome on green/orange/blue lines).

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[Jully]

Interesting about Barker. Didn't even notice it being down today. Rode it a bunch around 10 and sporadically throughout the afternoon.

Glad it's nothing serious!

 

[machski]

Last night, I was just looking over the River's interactive ski map, to see what I was missing out on and what they managed to open for the holidays. I saw Green Cheese, Upper and Lower Moonstruck, Starlight and Assumption open. But not the Little White Cap chair that services that area.

I sent a message on FB to the River inquiring. Here is their reply:

They can be accessed by Assumption off of White Heat and have been groomed recently, so our patrol team was okay with them being "open" even though they aren't lift-serviced at the moment.

Fudging the trail count much? Sure, they did that a couple years ago when Spruce lift was down, so now they feel okay it being SOP? I know when I look at trail count deciding which resort to go to, I might be a little upset if I got there and learned that some trails were not lift served. We are talking about Little White Cap, a beginner area, but still, all the more reason for lift service.

Well, they did make snow on the entire area a week or 2 ago. I had heard the lift was suppose to be ready back then, but must have run into another delay. Hearing load check was suppose to be today, not sure that gets/got done with the weather. They were hopeful it would be up for the weekend. The base bull wheel has been on the ground all fall to this point. Not sure what went/needed, but must have been something in the motor or drive. Hopefully it is ready for the am, with the NW winds forecast tomorrow, they might need it as it is one of the most wind protected lifts on the hill.

I have no problem if they want to call fully prepared trails open if the lift is down. Easy hike from WH up assumption. Not going to do it myself for that terrain, but can be done. I also personally don't care if that "POD" is open or closed. Trail count doesn't matter to me, what trails are actually open is what I personally look at.

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[urungus]

Last night, I was just looking over the River's interactive ski map, to see what I was missing out on and what they managed to open for the holidays. I saw Green Cheese, Upper and Lower Moonstruck, Starlight and Assumption open. But not the Little White Cap chair that services that area.

I sent a message on FB to the River inquiring. Here is their reply:

They can be accessed by Assumption off of White Heat and have been groomed recently, so our patrol team was okay with them being "open" even though they aren't lift-serviced at the moment.

Fudging the trail count much? Sure, they did that a couple years ago when Spruce lift was down, so now they feel okay it being SOP? I know when I look at trail count deciding which resort to go to, I might be a little upset if I got there and learned that some trails were not lift served. We are talking about Little White Cap, a beginner area, but still, all the more reason for lift service.

Other resorts do this too ... Pico (Outpost) and Sugarbush (Castle Rock) come to mind.

 

[thetrailboss]

Other resorts do this too ... Pico (Outpost) and Sugarbush (Castle Rock) come to mind.

True. Little White Cap isn’t a big deal IMHO. But I do understand the frustration.


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[benski]

Other resorts do this too ... Pico (Outpost) and Sugarbush (Castle Rock) come to mind.

And often people pick a resort a few days in advance. If a lift only runs weekends or will only be closed for a few days a lift very well be open when many of those customers looking actually ski. Though Castlerock lift is closed due to thin snow there so people have to hike, which many people are doing.

 

[deadheadskier]

If it were my family, I'd take the resort shuttle from the Grand to South Ridge and be happy there is a groomed trail to at least get back to our hotel. I'd recognize that things happen. Lifts break from time to time.

This certainly wouldn't have an impact on my loyalty to the mountain unless it were a repeated occurrence.

This really isn't that big of a deal. I think you are over thinking things.

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[deadheadskier]

I guess I don't really care or think too much about trail count. I mean Wildcat will often list and have 40 trails open when more than a dozen have conditions that are virtually unskiable. You could look at it like they are baiting people in or just know that that's how it goes there. Same is true for places like Magic or MRG. Personally, I prefer places that open up everything they can even during marginal conditions.

Sunday River is a very large mountain that more often than not is reliably going to have some of the most skiable terrain open in New England. I don't think having 82 trails open vs 77 is really going to make that much of a difference to most people going there.

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[machski]

As an update, no Little White Cap quad again today though I am not surprised. Yesterday would have been tough to do a load test in that weather. I can say the Bull Wheel is back on so should be ready to go very soon.

Also, the New Year's Eve storm looks to be shifting a bit, reminiscent of some of our early November storm tracks where Wildcat and North East into Maine stay mostly snow. I won't be around but fingers crossed!

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[Jully]

As an update, no Little White Cap quad again today though I am not surprised. Yesterday would have been tough to do a load test in that weather. I can say the Bull Wheel is back on so should be ready to go very soon.

Also, the New Year's Eve storm looks to be shifting a bit, reminiscent of some of our early November storm tracks where Wildcat and North East into Maine stay mostly snow. I won't be around but fingers crossed!

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I saw that. Just a few inches for SR last I saw though. Any more and it'll throw off my plans of not skiing (not that that would be a bad thing though).

 

[skiur]

Sunday River is getting it back! All this rain has caused issues, of course. Yesterday, the wind basically had south Ridge and Little white cap as your options, but today, they had almost every groom able trail open (no lift lines or glades) except for Oz and Salvation off of White Heat.

There was fresh manmade on Upper Punch, Cyclone, Double Dipper, Flow State, Kansas and others. I love that they are making snow!

You act like they are doing something special by making snow, How could they not make snow?

 

[kbroderick]

Sunday River is getting it back! All this rain has caused issues, of course. Yesterday, the wind basically had south Ridge and Little white cap as your options, but today, they had almost every groom able trail open (no lift lines or glades) except for Oz and Salvation off of White Heat.

The hour or so before the wind came in on New Year's Day didn't suck, either. Minimal people for a holiday, soft snow on top of the early grooms, and they even opened some natural-snow trails before the wind shut things down (I got a pretty damn good run down Locke Line to Crossbow/Tightwire, passing patrol as they coiled the Crossbow rope, which was quite nice).

Overall, I've been pretty impressed with the skiing this year—it's been a while since I've been around, and it's been a bit of an adjustment moving back from Montana snow conditions, but the grooming has been pretty damn good overall, and the quantity and quality of snowmaking have both been what I'd expect from a top-tier New England resort.

I'd prefer it if they'd take some lessons from the MRG patrol on what to open and what to leave closed, but I suspect the difference in clientele would make that a bad decision in the long run.

 

[machski]

The hour or so before the wind came in on New Year's Day didn't suck, either. Minimal people for a holiday, soft snow on top of the early grooms, and they even opened some natural-snow trails before the wind shut things down (I got a pretty damn good run down Locke Line to Crossbow/Tightwire, passing patrol as they coiled the Crossbow rope, which was quite nice).

Overall, I've been pretty impressed with the skiing this year—it's been a while since I've been around, and it's been a bit of an adjustment moving back from Montana snow conditions, but the grooming has been pretty damn good overall, and the quantity and quality of snowmaking have both been what I'd expect from a top-tier New England resort.

I'd prefer it if they'd take some lessons from the MRG patrol on what to open and what to leave closed, but I suspect the difference in clientele would make that a bad decision in the long run.

They have actually become much more lenient about what to keep open/open in the last two years or so. Mad River really does not have a choice if they want to be open many times as they have almost nothing snowmaking wise. Lately, if it has been closed at SR, you really don't want to ski it. Not saying it might not be "skiable," but if it's closed it likely isn't really any fun to ski it in any fashion.

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[thetrailboss]

https://gouldacademy.org/give/the-c...J7MJFfOeEvOfwWhHMWu4DL_Gk2-nCG6doitus79UKIJSQ

Looks like the T-Bar is a go.


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[thetrailboss]

While it can still be fun, OZ might be the most horrendous trail design f ups in New England skiing history. As I understand it, Les wanted to create a terrain pod with a western bowl type feel. Not a great plan for an area that averages 150" of snow a year.

I haven't skied that terrain for probably five years, but I was a passholder there 05-07 and know it well. I always felt they should rope off several large areas of terrain in Oz to allow trees to regrow.

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Yes. Always seemed odd and half-done.


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[nanjil]

That 4-6 inches of light fluffy powder has the River opening glades and lift lines. It's only going to get better with next week's snow on Tuesday! On a personal note, I skied Karumba under Jordan for the first time today. It wasn't pretty but I didn't crash. Next time will look better!

Basically, the mountain is in mid season form as you might expect it to be. IIRC, they are calling for 111 trails tomorrow and every lift except North Peak scheduled for tomorrow.

Skied upper blind ambition was great. Did Ruby place that was harsh Al the way not just steepest parts

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[machski]

According to today's morning report, snowmaking last night and today on Top Gun, Quantum Leap and Eureka. If true, that represents pretty much all of the snowmaking terrain (only things not hit with any length are Polaris and Backside which honestly, who cares) being hit and we are not even to January 10th yet! That is the fastest they have gotten to everything in maybe a decade and they have remade several trails to boot as well. Now I think I can join uphillklimber and say I'm impressed with the effort and dedication this year. Can't wait to get back out Wednesday!!

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