2020-21 Sunday River

[urungus]

Have to wonder if the two lift manufacturers are reaching capacity but there has to be some economies of scale with simultaneous detach installs at one property.

That will be six detach installs at boyne's four eastern properties over a three year span, sharp contrast with the four vail NH properties for the Boston North skier.

Not really fair to compare all of New England for Boyne to only NH for Vail.
Vails VT resorts are all closer to Boston than Boynes Maine Resorts
* new Quantum six-pack at Okemo
* upgrade of Okemo Green Ridge Triple to Quad
* new Sundance six-pack at Mt Snow
* new Sunbrook Quad at Mt Snow
* new six-pack at Stowe replacing Mountain Triple
* new quad at Attitash replacing East West double double

 

[thebigo]

What are the six?

Loon 8
Jordan 8
Barker 6
Shawnee refurb 4

What am I missing?

7 bros and west, assuming west happens next year. The sugarloaf chat should be entertaining when barker is announced. Two brand new shiny lifts at SR and SL may get a used quad.

 

[thebigo]

Not really fair to compare all of New England for Boyne to only NH for Vail.
Vails VT resorts are all closer to Boston than Boynes Maine Resorts
* new Quantum six-pack at Okemo
* upgrade of Okemo Green Ridge Triple to Quad
* new Sundance six-pack at Mt Snow
* new Sunbrook Quad at Mt Snow
* new six-pack at Stowe replacing Mountain Triple
* new quad at Attitash replacing East West double double

VT south of K is irrelevant if you live in Eastern NH, the Merrimack Valley or southern Maine - presumably the target market for the NH properties. Off the top of my head maybe two of my last 500 ski days have been in southern vt, no way to get there and better options driving north than west.

My only point was that boyne, and by extension ikon, investments are impressive to the Boston North skier choosing a pass. Boyne of course still needs one more property in Southern NH to dominate that market.

 

[machski]

Poorly written. They mean North Peak for the new 20" pipe and guns, not Spruce. It's going from the Barker pumphouse to the top of North Peak. 26 auto Super Polecats on Risky from Lazy down
Amex bottom 1/3
Grand Rapids bottom 1/8.

Well, that is where they need the added throw the Super Polecats will give them. Noticed the Lower Risky lines on lift side up to Lazy intersection have had the hydrants removed and capped. Guess they won't need the extra side anymore post fan install. Hopefully lower AmEx will have better coverage wall to wall. Well, I mean hopefully it will have wall to wall coverage. Plus, I kind of expect them to go with Spruce for late season skiing next year as Barker will likely have to shut by April 1st if not sooner to have a new lift ready by Thanksgiving timeframe 2023.

 

[machski]

At just shy of 4,000 feet Tempest is absolutely long enough to warrant a detach and White Cap is the only base without one. It's foolish to spend more money on another NEW fixed grip for only an extra 50 fpm.

They would be better off installing a carpet on the lift as is and waiting until they're ready to put a detach in. If they want to play in the big league, that is what the install should ultimately be. The maintenance expense is part of playing in it.

I wouldn't complain if they went Detach for Tempest, I just don't believe they will. Granted Spruce was replaced wile CNL was still alive and kicking, but that lift is 4600' or so and stayed FG (yes, I know the pod is smaller than what Tempest would serve and all, but you can order a HSQ with fewer carriers to trim hourly capacity. Imperial Express at Breck is a perfect example). DB has been adamant with me that a detach is not coming to White Cap for some time. Of course, he was also adamant an 8 chair wasn't coming to SR either. Hmmmmm

 

[Andrew B.]

Vails VT resorts are all closer to Boston than Boynes Maine Resorts

Do you mean “most” Vail Vt resorts?
Boston to Stowe is 199 miles
Boston to Sunday River is 177 miles
Boston to Shawnee is 140

 

[Newpylong]

I wouldn't complain if they went Detach for Tempest, I just don't believe they will. Granted Spruce was replaced wile CNL was still alive and kicking, but that lift is 4600' or so and stayed FG (yes, I know the pod is smaller than what Tempest would serve and all, but you can order a HSQ with fewer carriers to trim hourly capacity. Imperial Express at Breck is a perfect example). DB has been adamant with me that a detach is not coming to White Cap for some time. Of course, he was also adamant an 8 chair wasn't coming to SR either. Hmmmmm

I am with you, I just think it is a taylor made location for a detach quad at this point, especially with the hotel and now Shipyard increasing usage over there. Kinda blown away they wouldn't move Jordan there vs send to Shawnee. Then again, I am less than impressed with Boyne lift decisions in general. I think the triple on Spruce instead of a FGQ was idiotic to save a few pennies with the excuse of wanting to limit downhill capacity. No one is putting triples in except in limited use cases (Merrill Hill is perfect). They are now going to be putting an 8 on Jordan for essentially the same downhill capacity as Sprice (until if and when whatever build out they say is going to happen over there).

The Kanc 8 was overkill in that location at Loon. Sugarloaf is riddled with lifts that need to be replaced, etc. Real headscratchers...

 

[xlr8r]

Spruce was under CNL, at that time Boyne was not spending much money on lifts at all. Spruce remained a triple as they could reuse the loading carpet that had already been installed for the old lift, and probably for insurance replace like for like reasons. But they ended up having to reinstall the carpet after the new lift went in anyway.

I am one who also wants Tempest replaced with a detach, it would bring more people to that under utilized side of the mountain. Also it would be nice if they could somehow get access to lower obsession from the top of the Tempest lift when it gets replaced. Aurora is fine as is IMO, it never has a line, the ride is short, and I really do not want any more people going through the terrible intersection where Kansas cuts across the Aurora trails. One of Les Otten's worst development designs.

Jordan 8 does seem overkill, but I was skeptical of the Kanc 8 at Loon, and capacity wise that lift works well in that location. The issue with the Kanc 8 is all its software issues, and lift line management. I do not think the new Jordan 8 will be that much more wind protected than the old lift.

Sending old Jordan to Shawnee, and now replacing Barker with a new lift makes a whole lot of sense. I had a feeling they were going to do that months ago. New Barker will have to at least be a 6 pack.

 

[machski]

Spruce was under CNL, at that time Boyne was not spending much money on lifts at all. Spruce remained a triple as they could reuse the loading carpet that had already been installed for the old lift, and probably for insurance replace like for like reasons. But they ended up having to reinstall the carpet after the new lift went in anyway.

I am one who also wants Tempest replaced with a detach, it would bring more people to that under utilized side of the mountain. Also it would be nice if they could somehow get access to lower obsession from the top of the Tempest lift when it gets replaced. Aurora is fine as is IMO, it never has a line, the ride is short, and I really do not want any more people going through the terrible intersection where Kansas cuts across the Aurora trails. One of Les Otten's worst development designs.

Jordan 8 does seem overkill, but I was skeptical of the Kanc 8 at Loon, and capacity wise that lift works well in that location. The issue with the Kanc 8 is all its software issues, and lift line management. I do not think the new Jordan 8 will be that much more wind protected than the old lift.

Sending old Jordan to Shawnee, and now replacing Barker with a new lift makes a whole lot of sense. I had a feeling they were going to do that months ago. New Barker will have to at least be a 6 pack.

You will be shocked then when you see the line and terminal redesign sunk into the summit on the new lift. That alone should cut down on wind issues by drastically lowering the line after the breakover at the top of Carumba. Add to that the weight of each unloaded chair (almost the weight of a Chevy Tahoe), will be much improved against NW winds from the Quad. Won't eliminate every wind event from lift holds, but then those days you really wouldn't want to be up on top of Jordan trying to ski.

 

[Razor]

Can someone explain what the top configuration of the Jordan 8 will be? Are they carving out an unloading area? And what is all the blasting for? What will the entry to Kansas be like?

 

[machski]

Can someone explain what the top configuration of the Jordan 8 will be? Are they carving out an unloading area? And what is all the blasting for? What will the entry to Kansas be like?

They are carving out the foundation for the top terminal. It will be pulled downhill of the current Quad a bit, to lower the profile of the line coming over the breakover at top of Carumba. The breakover tower there will be considerably lower, most likely necessitating a new Carumba entrance down Rogue a bit. How much they are actually going to regrade the summit of Jordan, I'm not sure. But I am guessing the sharp corner and steep drop into Kansas from the top will both be muted, likely with fill added from summit work. They did a similar but less rigorous regrade of lights out and Downdraft to the Chondi summit last fall.

 

[thebigo]

Jordan 8 does seem overkill, but I was skeptical of the Kanc 8 at Loon, and capacity wise that lift works well in that location. The issue with the Kanc 8 is all its software issues, and lift line management.

Overkill and waste of money are the two comments I hear most frequently at loon RE the 8. They wanted the media buzz and summer operations. A chondola to replace the gondola would have been a better investment.

Ultimatley seven brothers may prove more impactful than the 8. Carpet loads are terrible beginner/kid lifts; hard enough to scoop kids on fixed grips while bumping and holding poles without having to navigate a carpet. A high speed quad in that location gives loon much needed progression terrain. Also helps offload the gondola crowd, move people out of the base area and improve general flow around the mountain. Hopefully they run it during the week.

 

[Newpylong]

100%

 

[machski]

Overkill and waste of money are the two comments I hear most frequently at loon RE the 8. They wanted the media buzz and summer operations. A chondola to replace the gondola would have been a better investment.

Ultimatley seven brothers may prove more impactful than the 8. Carpet loads are terrible beginner/kid lifts; hard enough to scoop kids on fixed grips while bumping and holding poles without having to navigate a carpet. A high speed quad in that location gives loon much needed progression terrain. Also helps offload the gondola crowd, move people out of the base area and improve general flow around the mountain. Hopefully they run it during the week.

A replacement for the Gondi is coming at the tail end of their 2030 plan. They have to amortize the cost of the new Gondi cabins they purchased 3 years ago. Those were not cheap.

As to the Kanc8. Sure, they could have gone D-Line 6 as well, but opted for the publicity. It will also be the MTB park lift starting this summer, so it will get multi-seasonal use. Being only the second 8 in NA, good chance Dopp cut them a discount as well to try and break the market open more to adopting those.

 

[Andrew B.]

Great weekend at SR
There is still plenty of snow in many places and there are big soft bumps (when warmed up) in places like shockwave and Top Gun if you don’t mind avoiding some bare spots.

 

[machski]

Gorgeous day out there today! Still a ton of trails open with near wall to wall coverage. Plenty of snow on Spruce, Barker, Locke and White Cap to carry them thru and even beyond the 24th of they chose to. White Cap all the way to the base should remain in play until final weekend, Heat and Starlight are deep and Obsession is in great shape too. Even a couple of Natty runs still open today.

 

[bigbob]

A replacement for the Gondi is coming at the tail end of their 2030 plan. They have to amortize the cost of the new Gondi cabins they purchased 3 years ago. Those were not cheap.

As to the Kanc8. Sure, they could have gone D-Line 6 as well, but opted for the publicity. It will also be the MTB park lift starting this summer, so it will get multi-seasonal use. Being only the second 8 in NA, good chance Dopp cut them a discount as well to try and break the market open more to adopting those.

Boyne will have purchased 4 of these 8 packs in the last 4 years. Maybe Dopp gave them a muti purchase discount!

 

[thebigo]

We don't have a loon thread but little sister gave another great day. Had a bunch of lousy mid winter days at loon, every spring day has been spectacular. The snow depth is beyond impressive.

 

[thebigo]

What do people recommend for a family dinner Saturday night? Booked a long weekend at the grand with the kids, wife is coming Saturday night. Is the new place at the old Phoenix decent? Matterhorn a better choice?

 

[Andrew B.]

What do people recommend for a family dinner Saturday night? Booked a long weekend at the grand with the kids, wife is coming Saturday night. Is the new place at the old Phoenix decent? Matterhorn a better choice?

Being kind; the new Phoenix is struggling, good beer but the food (limited menu) and service…. Meh
Matterhorn always delivers and the kids love it.
The other new place, Steam Mill Brewing on the access road is good if you’re looking for something new.