"Artificial" Open Bowl Skiing in the East

[snowmonster]

This may be the most ill-informed idea I've read on this forum.

The reasons for why you wouldn't want to do this should be self-evident if you've skied for more than 5 minutes in the East. Aside from the obvious environmental roadblocks/issues, there is the small matter of wind blowing all of the snow elsewhere. Classic New England runs were cut in that manner b/c of the problems in the East with snow retention. You get less snow, more thaws and more wind here vs. the West, so in the days before snowmaking, you needed narrower runs that followed the contours of the mountain so that you had as much shadow and wind protection as possible.

Also, you are incorrect in stating that Sugarloaf is the only resort in the East offering this experience. With modest hikes (<30 minutes), you can enjoy this experience at both Stowe and Saddleback.

Agree on the misinformed notion of the OP. Technically, only the SL backside snowfields are not lift served since you need to walk a bit from Timberline. The front snowfileds are skiable form the lift. Agree that the backsides of Mansfield and SB would give you the same bowl-like terrain. If you're going into the backcountry looking for open bowls, why limit yourself to Tux. In the same neighborhood, there's Hillman's Highway, the Gulf of Slides, Huntington Ravine, Ammonoosuc Ravine, Burt Ravine, Monroe Brook, King Ravine, the Great Gulf, etc.

 

[Nick]

Well you'll have to get out to the AZ Summit 3.0 next Spring and ski 'em then!

 

[wa-loaf]

Well you'll have to get out to the AZ Summit 3.0 next Spring and ski 'em then!

Any details on this yet? :grin:

 

[skiersleft]

Well you'll have to get out to the AZ Summit 3.0 next Spring and ski 'em then!

I'll be there. When is it?

 

[Nick]

Nothing public yet :lol: ... more details to come probably in the next 4 - 6 weeks. Definitely by the end of Oct.

 

[snowmonster]

Well you'll have to get out to the AZ Summit 3.0 next Spring and ski 'em then!

Thanks for putting it all together. Since the Loaf is on my pass, I'll be sending them some love throughout the season.

 

[Nick]

Sigh (way back in 2001)

 

[4aprice]

Seems like I wasn't clear the first time. I love skiing trees and can ski them pretty well. I just don't think we ought to have to choose between either one or the other. In a perfect world we could do both.

Never skied the Slides, but plan on doing so this year. Does it really provide somewhat of an open bowl experience?

Didn't mean to infer that you didn't. Like someone said before (and this is true of some of the west as well) unless you have a burn area your not going to find much skiable terrain above the tree line. Elevation is not our friend so skiing in the trees is pretty much a sure thing. The Slides are pretty wide at the top and funnel down to thin at the end so yes I say its kind of like a bowl experience. They are also lift served for at least 3/4's of it. Problem with Whiteface is it doesn't get the snow that some other places get.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

 

[skiersleft]

Didn't mean to infer that you didn't. Like someone said before (and this is true of some of the west as well) unless you have a burn area your not going to find much skiable terrain above the tree line. Elevation is not our friend so skiing in the trees is pretty much a sure thing. The Slides are pretty wide at the top and funnel down to thin at the end so yes I say its kind of like a bowl experience. They are also lift served for at least 3/4's of it. Problem with Whiteface is it doesn't get the snow that some other places get.

Alex

Lake Hopatcong, NJ

No prob. Look forward to skiing the slides this year. When are they usually open? February and March?

 

[skiersleft]

Sigh (way back in 2001)

Breathtaking!

 

[bvibert]

Don't you have to hike to get above the treeline at Sugarloaf?

As in bvibert's avi

Not supposed to be that way. Although I've never had the pleasure of skiing them, I believe that the deal is you get off the lift, walk literally two minutes to the radio tower and head down. Walking for 2 minutes doesn't count as a hike.

It's a short hike up a bit of a pitch. Somewhere between a walk and a hike, IMHO. It's not like you're skating to them from the lift. Probably took me a bit more than 2 minutes, but I'm out of shape. The thing that sucks is that you can't lap them. I don't know of any easy way to ski the backside, and then get back to the lift that services them without taking at least one other lift, 2 if you hit up Brackett. Then again I've only skied there twice, so I might be missing something.

 

[Tin Woodsman]

It's a short hike up a bit of a pitch. Somewhere between a walk and a hike, IMHO. It's not like you're skating to them from the lift. Probably took me a bit more than 2 minutes, but I'm out of shape. The thing that sucks is that you can't lap them. I don't know of any easy way to ski the backside, and then get back to the lift that services them without taking at least one other lift, 2 if you hit up Brackett. Then again I've only skied there twice, so I might be missing something.

If you have to take off your skis, it's a hike. Full stop.

 

[skiersleft]

If you have to take off your skis, it's a hike. Full stop.

Except if you have to ride a gondola, in which case you always take your skis off.

P.S. It's a joke, please don't crap all over me claiming that this is totally illogical, doesn't pass the smell test and misses the point you were trying to make.

 

[bvibert]

If you have to take off your skis, it's a hike. Full stop.

Works for me, I just didn't want everyone calling me a wuss for thinking heading uphill for a few minutes with your skis over your back was a hike. :lol: It certainly isn't a ton of work.

 

[ALLSKIING]

Works for me, I just didn't want everyone calling me a wuss for thinking heading uphill for a few minutes with your skis over your back was a hike. :lol: It certainly isn't a ton of work.

Wuss

 

[riverc0il]

There is no lift serviced "bowl" skiing in the east. Sugarloaf offers the only lift serviced above tree line skiing. It is a big difference between the terrain being convex vs concave. As I recall, Loaf's above tree line was the result of a fire though they still needed to hack out trails.

The reasons it isn't done more often are varied but include financial, environmental, character, and snow quality.

It isn't worth it for ski areas to clear cut the tops of mountains. The limited draw wouldn't offset the huge financial loss. Additionally, less trees means more wind which means more wind holds which means guests might not want to visit as much. Note that Loaf has a separate additional lift that is pretty much limited to servicing the above tree line terrain. It isn't a huge deal if Timberline goes on wind hold if the rest of the mountain is spinning. An additional lift for most places would be financially disastrous and if a lift already goes to the summit then hello wind hold.

Environmental is self evident. There are restrictions regarding what can be cut at most resorts.

Character is also important. You would loose trails and a man made clear cut could be viewed as an eye sore.

Snow quality would be total crap. The additional wind would mean that the terrain would be closed more often than not even with snow making (which would just blow clear off the mountain due to winds any ways). I'm not overly impressed with Loaf's groomed summit runs. I dare say they suck every time I have skied them. Probably great in the spring but what about the other 83% of the year? Crap.

It just doesn't make sense. New England skiing is all about working with the terrain. If you want bowl skiing in the east, there are a dozen of them on Mount Washington. Have at em'.

 

[skiersleft]

There is no lift serviced "bowl" skiing in the east. Sugarloaf offers the only lift serviced above tree line skiing. It is a big difference between the terrain being convex vs concave. As I recall, Loaf's above tree line was the result of a fire though they still needed to hack out trails.

The reasons it isn't done more often are varied but include financial, environmental, character, and snow quality.

It isn't worth it for ski areas to clear cut the tops of mountains. The limited draw wouldn't offset the huge financial loss. Additionally, less trees means more wind which means more wind holds which means guests might not want to visit as much. Note that Loaf has a separate additional lift that is pretty much limited to servicing the above tree line terrain. It isn't a huge deal if Timberline goes on wind hold if the rest of the mountain is spinning. An additional lift for most places would be financially disastrous and if a lift already goes to the summit then hello wind hold.

Environmental is self evident. There are restrictions regarding what can be cut at most resorts.

Character is also important. You would loose trails and a man made clear cut could be viewed as an eye sore.

Snow quality would be total crap. The additional wind would mean that the terrain would be closed more often than not even with snow making (which would just blow clear off the mountain due to winds any ways). I'm not overly impressed with Loaf's groomed summit runs. I dare say they suck every time I have skied them. Probably great in the spring but what about the other 83% of the year? Crap.

It just doesn't make sense. New England skiing is all about working with the terrain. If you want bowl skiing in the east, there are a dozen of them on Mount Washington. Have at em'.

Good answer. Kind of summarizes all of the points made here. Without the meanness, of course!

 

[Black Phantom]

Good answer. Kind of summarizes all of the points made here. Without the meanness, of course!

Do you have any difficulty loading HS Lifts?

 

[skiersleft]

Do you have any difficulty loading HS Lifts?

Are you junior?

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

This has got to be one of the worst threads in the history of alpinezone.

Agreed!