Another air bag save, video doesn't say who or where this is.
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Avalanche air bag save (video)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
It could have been. That still seems awfully risky for an advertisement.
might not have been real.
fbrissette
Well-known member
Even if it is real, it does not mean the air bag saved him. While evidence indicates that the bag helps, it is not a simple matter.
http://www.avalancheresearch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/2012_Haegeli_CndAvBalloonPart1.pdf
C-Rex
New member
I find that the best way to survive an avalanche is to not be around when one happens.
I find myself feeling that these things just give uneducated and underskilled people a false sense of security.
I find myself feeling that these things just give uneducated and underskilled people a false sense of security.
fbrissette
Well-known member
I totally agree with the above. I've toured the Alps last winter with a 50 year old British guide. The guy has spent an average of 200 days ski-touring the backcountry every year for the past 20+ years. He has never been caught in an avalanche/slide and he says that this is true of most experienced guides. Yet, if you follow some of the threads on the TGR forum, it seems like most of the guys hanging there have been partly buried at least once, and in many cases more than once. A bit scary.
I think they did say that even in the video caption.
Relevent comments:
Freeskier Aymar Navarro was at a film shoot in the Spanish Pyrenees when he suddenly triggered a massive avalanche.
Basically, even they admit the bag is about increasing odds, not making it "safe to be in an avalanche"
Powder is all over it: http://www.powdermag.com/stories/op-ed-calling-bullsht/
Interesting. In the comments the skier himself made a retort
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Sent from my Nexus 7 using AlpineZone mobile app
fbrissette
Well-known member
Looks like the story has been pulled.
edit: still there, link has changed
http://www.powdermag.com/first-chair/op-ed-calling-bullsht/
edit: still there, link has changed
http://www.powdermag.com/first-chair/op-ed-calling-bullsht/
I want to see the avalanche video where there are trees below, skier with NO air bag stops right before being pushed through the tree shredder by the avalanche. Replay with air bag the dude gets carried through the tree shredder by the avalanche and dies. Yeah that is the video I want to see. Reason I want to see that video is because people think they're friggin invincible because they have an avalanche air bag.
I dunno about that. I mean it's a protective measure, right? The more safety equipment we have the more we increase our chances of surviving an incident. best bet is to not get in an avalanche to begin with, but if you do,I would way rather have an airbag than not.
However, like you mention, that shouldn't substitute for common sense. You obviously shouldn't ski something just because you have an airbag, any more than you should because you have a transceiver or a shovel.
Avalanche air bags do have a down side in that you will get pushed down the mountain a farther distance than if you had no air bag. If there are trees below or a cliff the air bag potentially could result in more harm if victim got carried over a cliff or into the trees.
fbrissette
Well-known member
While it makes sense I am not sure if this is rooted in any analysis such as the one I referenced earlier. One thing is sure, it is not that simple to deploy the bag once in the avalanche, and the probability of dying remains high even with the bag. You can get buried deep with a bag, especially if you are near the runoff zone or in a terrain trap.
Glorifying avalanche accidents such as was done with this video is shitty commercial practice and sends a very dangerous message. Avy bags may very well end up in more casualties by giving a false sense of security.
Maybe to some people but is that a good reason to somehow not promote their use?
Does the same logic apply to transceivers and shovels?
What about seat belts in cars. Do you feel comfortable driving faster when you are buckled up?
fbrissette
Well-known member
How about a seatbelt commercial showing a crazy driver missing a curve, doing several rolls and escaping with a smile ( with several close-ups on the seat belt manufacturer's name). Do you think this would be a responsible add ?
Yes that's a good point, the usage in an advertisement. I hear you on that. I thought you were talking more broadly about the usage of airbags in general.
AHM
New member
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
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As an airbag user........
There are a lot of folks chatting about airbags and perceived vs real safety. As a dedicated airbag user, with an AIARE level 3 certification, an AIARE instructor, having taken the AMGA ski guide course and working thru the AMGA ski mountaineering guide program, I spend a good amount of time in avalanche terrain and I believe my airbag is a good safety device. Prior to the airbag (Mammut 35 L RAS) I was a dedicated BD avilung pack user.
No avalanche safety gear is a be all end all. Airbags have been shown to improve survival stats in 95% of the cases where they were used. Most AMGA guides own airbags and most use them, especially when it hits considerable. That said, no one I ski with thinks that the airbag will save them no matter what and experienced backcountry skiers do not hit lines just because they have an air bag on. Most people with solid avalanche education/skills have no desire to be caught in an avalanche and do not think it is cool. Talk to someone who has been caught and they will tell you it is pretty scary.
The best piece of avi gear to use is your head. Ensure the risk to reward benefit is worth it before skiing a line that has the conditions to slide and ensure your partners are prepared and aligned with the idea and ready to rescue you if you get caught.
Better yet, take an avalanche course and practice safe travel techniques with good decision making. The BC is a great place and with today's gear and knowledge we can get into the backcountry much easier but that does not make it any safer. If you can afford an airbag, do not mind the weight and the hassle filling the cylinder (this is a hassle when you travel by air) then they are a great tool.
AHM
There are a lot of folks chatting about airbags and perceived vs real safety. As a dedicated airbag user, with an AIARE level 3 certification, an AIARE instructor, having taken the AMGA ski guide course and working thru the AMGA ski mountaineering guide program, I spend a good amount of time in avalanche terrain and I believe my airbag is a good safety device. Prior to the airbag (Mammut 35 L RAS) I was a dedicated BD avilung pack user.
No avalanche safety gear is a be all end all. Airbags have been shown to improve survival stats in 95% of the cases where they were used. Most AMGA guides own airbags and most use them, especially when it hits considerable. That said, no one I ski with thinks that the airbag will save them no matter what and experienced backcountry skiers do not hit lines just because they have an air bag on. Most people with solid avalanche education/skills have no desire to be caught in an avalanche and do not think it is cool. Talk to someone who has been caught and they will tell you it is pretty scary.
The best piece of avi gear to use is your head. Ensure the risk to reward benefit is worth it before skiing a line that has the conditions to slide and ensure your partners are prepared and aligned with the idea and ready to rescue you if you get caught.
Better yet, take an avalanche course and practice safe travel techniques with good decision making. The BC is a great place and with today's gear and knowledge we can get into the backcountry much easier but that does not make it any safer. If you can afford an airbag, do not mind the weight and the hassle filling the cylinder (this is a hassle when you travel by air) then they are a great tool.
AHM
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