Backcountry Safety

[rogue rider]

There have been a number of threads recently discussing hiking/skinning for turns and through all of this there has been almost no mention of safety. This bothers me since a lot of people may be influenced by what they read here to venture into the back/slack/side country without considering the hazards and things to bring with them.

I am not just talking about beacons, shovels and probes here but things like first aid kits, extra food and clothes, etc.

I am by no means a backcountry expert but I hope some others with more experience will chime in and share their knowledge on what kind of equipment (and knowledge of its use) is appropriate for various situations.

 

[JimG.]

Rule# 1: Be it BC, OB, or just some line in the woods at a resort, always travel in a group of 3 people. 1 can go for help while another can tend to the fallen 3rd member of the party.

Because all of the fancy equipment and food and water in the world isn't going to mean squat if nobody knows you are hurt or lost.

 

[rogue rider]

Because all of the fancy equipment and food and water in the world isn't going to mean squat if nobody knows you are hurt or lost.

Yep.

Personally, I think the most important thing to bring is an awareness of the potential hazards and the knowledge to recognize and avoid them before you get into trouble. I guess that is also part of what I hope is elaborated on here.

 

[David Metsky]

The most imporant piece of equipment is located between your ears. Experience, the willingness to turn around, the knowledge of how to use your tools are all key. Safety doesn't come from gear you carry, although that is a component.

First, take a Wilderness First-Aid course (SOLO has an excellent one) and keep it current. Learn how to navigate by map and compass. Know the terrain you will be travelling in. If at all possible, go with someone who has been there before, or travel the terrain in summer to scout. Have a real topo map so you can find yourself.

Know your gear. Know how to repair your bindings or boots if they break, or a ski pole that snaps.. Get used to your gear on familiar terrain before you venture into new areas or far from the road.

Know the people you are skiing with. Go in a group, make sure people you are with have the right gear and the right attitude.

Carry enough to spend the night out. That means a sleeping bag, pad, bivy or tarp, extra clothes, food and water. People have different ideas about what is minimal gear, but know what your limits are. In many places even if you have a good cell phone connection no one will be coming to help you until morning. Are you prepared for that?

Avy beacons, shovels, probes all have their place, but outside of Katahdin, the Presidentials, and the slides in the Daks, they are certainly not critical gear in the northeast. And if you don't know how to use them, or the majority of your party doesn't have beacons, there's no point in carrying extra weight. And all those things are secondary defense, the primary defense is not getting caught in an avalanche. Know how to assess slopes, dig pits, listen to avy reports, and realize that they mountains will always be there.

I could go on for a wihle, gotta get back to work.

- dave-

 

[powers]

One aspect that is over looked is the ability of a group to make good decsions. A group only moves and is safe as its slowest and least expirenced person. Don't let someone lead just because they are the "best skier" and must be the "most knowledgeable". A good group leader will have the trip planned out with set times for turnaround, i.e. if you don't make it to point B by X time you aren't going to finish the trip in the daylight therefore you must turn back. They will also monitor the groups progress and mental state.If anyone in the group has issues they must be brought to the groups attention before its too late. Quite often people are afraid to raise a stink for fear of being seen as the wuss in the group. I have had to do this a couple of times myself.
Just remember, you can always come back another day. The mountain isn't going anywhere for a while. When Sir Edmund Hillery was told he might not have been the first to summit Everest, he was noted as saying "I was the first to come back alive and thats what counts." Or something like that.

 

[salida]

One aspect that is over looked is the ability of a group to make good decsions. A group only moves and is safe as its slowest and least expirenced person. Don't let someone lead just because they are the "best skier" and must be the "most knowledgeable". A good group leader will have the trip planned out with set times for turnaround, i.e. if you don't make it to point B by X time you aren't going to finish the trip in the daylight therefore you must turn back. They will also monitor the groups progress and mental state.If anyone in the group has issues they must be brought to the groups attention before its too late. Quite often people are afraid to raise a stink for fear of being seen as the wuss in the group. I have had to do this a couple of times myself.
Just remember, you can always come back another day. The mountain isn't going anywhere for a while. When Sir Edmund Hillery was told he might not have been the first to summit Everest, he was noted as saying "I was the first to come back alive and thats what counts." Or something like that.

Rule# 1: Be it BC, OB, or just some line in the woods at a resort, always travel in a group of 3 people. 1 can go for help while another can tend to the fallen 3rd member of the party.

Both of these points remind me of something. Lately, I have been completing most of my trips in groups of 2 (myself and a partner). I know groups of three certainly makes more sense on a safety front, one person stays with the victim, one person goes and gets help. However, we've found it cumbersome to travel in groups of three, and much easier to move, quickly, efficently, and safely in a group of two. Not to mention, being confident in one partners skills is easier in my opinion than two partners skills. As in climbing, it is easier to move on a rope of two than a rope of three, I've come to that conclusion with backcountry touring. Not that three is not enjoyable, but when there is a noteworthy goal at hand (a steep chute, a risky climb) I perfer a group of two.

Saying this, I surely hope I don't have to eat these words some day.

-Porter

 

[Marc]

There have been a number of threads recently discussing hiking/skinning for turns and through all of this there has been almost no mention of safety. This bothers me since a lot of people may be influenced by what they read here to venture into the back/slack/side country without considering the hazards and things to bring with them.

I am not just talking about beacons, shovels and probes here but things like first aid kits, extra food and clothes, etc.

I am by no means a backcountry expert but I hope some others with more experience will chime in and share their knowledge on what kind of equipment (and knowledge of its use) is appropriate for various situations.

Recently, no, but don't let it bother you.

I can assure you it has been discussed in the past.



On another note, I'm an EMT and I'd be willing to accompany a BC trip... for a fee. How does a flat rate of $800 sound? After all, can one really put a price on piece of mind?

 

[dmc]

On another note, I'm an EMT and I'd be willing to accompany a BC trip... for a fee. How does a flat rate of $800 sound? After all, can one really put a price on piece of mind?

Not needed... Have a bunch of ski patrollers that I take on BC trips... And they do it for free!

 

[powers]

Just a little life story I would like to share. Back in March of 04 three friends of mine decided to ski off of Mt Clay. Skier "A" took about 10 turns down the chute in powder before it turned to ice. He stopped and started to switch to crampons without any fall protection in place. He slipped and fell 1,000 vert. ft., rag dolling the whole way, alive but with serious injuries. Skier "B" started down to help with crampons and no axe. He made it to an ice bulge and fell off trying to downclimb it. He slid to his death. Skier "C" had a cell phone and was able to call for help. Skier "A" was saved by a Blackhawk Copter and the wilderness rescue crew in the area. Skier "B"'s body has hiked out the next day.

Skier "A" could have gone alone, as he and many of us do. Result: Nobody would have found his body for days.

Skier "A" and "B" took many trips together and were best friends. Both the same speed and expirence in the BC. They could have gone together. Result: One gets to watch the other die before expiring. The next most common way to get injured in the BC is rushing to help a friend without considering your own safety. The first incident is an accident, the second is a tragidy.

Adding skier "C" to the mix saved "A"'s life.

Moral of the story, Be careful, be safe and be prepared for anything. Accidents just don't happen in the BC. Another of my friends died @ Sunapee by hitting a tree at speed. He was an excellent skier. One slip on the ice at the edge of the trail was all it took. If you want to ski alone, just realize you might be in for some self extraction when things turn egg shaped. Been there, done that, not fun. If you ski with your buddy, make sure you can take care of each other.

Better safe than sorry, and trust me, you don't want to be sorry. Enough of this kind of talk, lets all decide to have a good, safe season and post lots of happy reports, okay?

 

[mattchuck2]

99.99% of the time I am riding by myself .. so I am suppose to stay out of the woods and BC because of that fact ??

Most people probably say yes . . . Not me. I drop into the woods all the time by myself, and I never have had any problem at all . . . mostly because of my superior technical abilities.

It's your world, Oldsnowboarder, the rest of us are just living in it.

P.S. You might want to tell someone where you are going, though . . . just in case you turn up missing . . .

 

[JD]

plenty of food. Thermous with HOT liquid. Yummy hot co co with Chipotle and Maple....Git back!
Food. Extra dry cloths, gloves, hat, space blanket, cell phone, saw, lighter, head lamp,
compass, map, nylon webbing, carabiners, duct tape, toilet paper, first aid, extra goggles. That's pretty much it.
edit:
I ski alone prolly half the time. Like Dave said, you have to know how to keep it safe. I ski very conservatively in these situations, in areas I know well. I'm looking for easy pow, not trying to be rad for any reason. But being alone on the top of Mansfield as the sun rise is sweet. Sking the Brook, first, alone is also sweet. Sure there is risk, but I imagine the risk of getting clocked by a plough on the way home is higher.

On bags and bivies, a pad and all that...that's alot of stuff. I think with an extra dry layer of everything, a saw, lighter and emergency blanet one night wouldn't be too bad. In more extreme situations, in bigger areas, I can see it.
Here's another variable. Know the weather forcast. When I hear tourists getting lost at K or J on nights where 20-30+below temps are possible, I shutter. It's real serious at that point. I know I take overnight low temps into consideration when deciding where I go and when. Zero and above I'm OK with. Deep cold I gotta respect. We don't have alot of the dangers of big Mtns. arounds here, but lordy does it get COLD!

 

[Marc]

Not needed... Have a bunch of ski patrollers that I take on BC trips... And they do it for free!

That's it. I'm starting a cartel.