Balsams Grand Resort teams up with ski industry legend Les Otten

[ss20]

You know, Les may not be the most popular guy around, and ASC did go bankrupt or darn near it, but we do have him to thank for a lot of ski terrain. I hope he makes a go with this.

Sugarbush, Sunday River & Killington would not be what they are today without him (lifts). Not to mention the Grand hotels he built at Mt. Snow & Attitash.

ditto and ditto. ASC gets a lot of hate... but Otten made the most out of the mountains he owned. While resorts put in condos and villages he focused on the terrain first, knowing real estate would follow. Real estate bankrupted a lot of mountains... Tenney, Ascutney, because they lacked on-hill investment.

What Otten did with Canyons was incredible. In 15 years he turned a small ski area into what would be equivalent to two large resorts, in the most competitive ski region in North America.

Vail may have connected Park City and Canyons, but there would be no Canyons to connect with if it weren't for Otten.

 

[Newpylong]

Sugarbush, Sunday River & Killington would not be what they are today without him (lifts). Not to mention the Grand hotels he built at Mt. Snow & Attitash.

The castration of Rams Head, the abandonment of Northeast Passage, and the shorter replacement of Needle's Eye go along with K1 and Skyeship. I would say they did much more harm than good at Killington.

Sunday River and Sugarbush they were great for.

 

[thetrailboss]

The castration of Rams Head, the abandonment of Northeast Passage, and the shorter replacement of Needle's Eye go along with K1 and Skyeship. I would say they did much more harm than good at Killington.

Sunday River and Sugarbush they were great for.

I believe that Skyeship was SKI and not ASC.

 

[Newpylong]

Good point that was the year before.

 

[steamboat1]

I never realized that replacing slow fixed grip double chairs with high speed detachable quad chairs was a detriment to a ski area.

 

[Newpylong]

They are when they remove lift serviced terrain and make you get on the gondola to ski terrain the chair used to serve. Do they get a Mulligan for Sunrise too?

 

[machski]

They are when they remove lift serviced terrain and make you get on the gondola to ski terrain the chair used to serve. Do they get a Mulligan for Sunrise too?

You need to study history more. Sunrise was a low use area, especially when development on the southeast side fell through. Trade offs were made to make the interconnect happen with Pico. Unfortunately they never got there (IMHO partly due to VT bureaucracy). Had they, you would have the top of Rams Head back in play right now. How long is the skyeship terrain in play even in a good year? And you wish they had even more stretched out low elevation terrain to soak up snowmaking resources why exactly?

 

[Newpylong]

Well aware of the history with Parkers Gore I was a passholder throughout this era.

FYI all permits were (and still are if they haven't expired) in place for the Pico K interconnect. It came down to money, as it still does.

Lower Sunrise had good terrain vs Skyeship and while there rarely was a line due to the lift, it was utilized, just not to the extent of the other pods. Anyone who says otherwise didn't ski it. It's a debate that's been going on for well over a decade. Plenty of people agree with me, plenty disagree.

 

[VTKilarney]

Trade offs were made to make the interconnect happen with Pico. Unfortunately they never got there (IMHO partly due to VT bureaucracy). Had they, you would have the top of Rams Head back in play right now.

And if the queen had balls she'd be the king. Your argument isn't very compelling.

 

[machski]

Well aware of the history with Parkers Gore I was a passholder throughout this era.

FYI all permits were (and still are if they haven't expired) in place for the Pico K interconnect. It came down to money, as it still does.

Lower Sunrise had good terrain vs Skyeship and while there rarely was a line due to the lift, it was utilized, just not to the extent of the other pods. Anyone who says otherwise didn't ski it. It's a debate that's been going on for well over a decade. Plenty of people agree with me, plenty disagree.

I'll agree, the terrain was more interesting than skyeship. With that said, the northeast passage triple was brutal. To make that a viable pod and justify the expense of snowmaking (low elevation would require it) would have cost millions, and bubble quads were not yet in vogue. Decisions were made, it was decided to focus on the interconnect which true, didn't happen. From a business side, it made more sense. Higher elevation of that terrain gives a better chance at being open. I have a feeling that had SKI not have installed skyeship, that pod may have been left for dead by both operators (ASC and Powder). What do they make, just one run down to Skyeship with snowmaking now? Big focus.

 

[Newpylong]

Those are all good points.

Yes one run (Great Eastern) down all the way to Skyeship with snowmaking, but that's all there ever has been. Home Stretch (ex 4 mile) almost all the way down gets it in good snow years as well. Actually SKI installed snowmaking on this section (below Great Eastern and above East Mountain Road) the year Skyeship went in.

 

[steamboat1]

Killington sucks

Don't go there.

 

[machski]

Those are all good points.

Yes one run (Great Eastern) down all the way to Skyeship with snowmaking, but that's all there ever has been. Home Stretch (ex 4 mile) almost all the way down gets it in good snow years as well. Actually SKI installed snowmaking on this section (below Great Eastern and above East Mountain Road) the year Skyeship went in.

True, and of course, both Touchdown and Valley Plunge have snow making lines. While it is short, I've always wondered why they don't use the hydrants and make Valley Plunge. From the east, it is now the first trail you can actually see. Never a good feeling seeing grass and dirt on that even if the rest of the resort is white.

 

[Newpylong]

I don't recall ever seeing Touchdown having its own pipes. If it's noted as having snowmaking capability it might be due to close proximity to Valley Plunge.

As for Valley Plunge there is what, 2 hydrants right before the last drop? In my near 30 years of going there they haven't been used. Same deal for Lower Pipe Dream. My guess is disconnected and otherwise unservicable. It is a fun run though, it would be nice to have it open more. I use Skyeship as my starting point at K.

 

[ss20]

As for Valley Plunge there is what, 2 hydrants right before the last drop? In my near 30 years of going there they haven't been used. Same deal for Lower Pipe Dream. My guess is disconnected and otherwise unservicable. It is a fun run though, it would be nice to have it open more. I use Skyeship as my starting point at K.

Perhaps because the gondola is at a low point there? Not enough clearance. That's what I remember seeing. Never parked at Skyeship and can count the number of times I've gone all the way down to Stage 1 on one hand.

 

[from_the_NEK]

Ok, enough cluttering up the Balsams thread with complaints about how Killington. :smash:

 

[thetrailboss]

Looks like the Les Otten PR machine is warming up.....

"We've already received more than twenty-five inches of natural snow on the mountain and have experienced more than 200 hours of weather cold enough for robust snowmaking," said Otten. "If the Balsams Wilderness ski area were up and running today, we'd likely have every trail open, despite the warm, wet weather the rest of the region is experiencing.

"When it comes to being colder and getting more snow than any resort in the Northeast, the Balsams advantage starts with an approximate 2000-foot elevation at our ski area's base," he said. "In addition, we are north of New Hampshire's Presidential mountain range, yet close enough to ocean to be in a prime position to reap the highest snowfalls from winter storms which typically track from the north and east."

http://caledonianrecord.com/main.asp?SectionID=180&SubSectionID=778&ArticleID=141666

 

[deadheadskier]

Lol

Every trail open?

 

[thetrailboss]

Lol

Every trail open?

Yep. It's like how he said White Heat is the "longest steepest widest bump run in the east."

 

[ss20]

Every trail open?! :blink:


Some people never change. Ambition made him and killed him in the ski industry. Hopefully he doesn't blow it this time ;-)