Beijing - 1st Olympics 100% man made snow

[abc]

You always have cherry picked examples to fit your narratives, Pele spent 95% of his career playing for the same team in Brazil and is still their all time top goal scorer. Also won three World Cups with the Brazilian national team. He spent three years playing in America before retirement, not exactly a mercenary.

Cherry picking? Just look at the current crop of soccer players. Huge number of them play for clubs not in their home country?

Sure, they all come home to play for their home country team in the world cup. But isn't that the best example of "mercenary"?

 

[KustyTheKlown]

not really. pro sports is a job and pro soccer leagues exist all over the world. its a different conversation than international competition. i don't buy the 'traitor/mercenary' line on these olympic athletes, but comparing pro sports to international isn't apples v apples.

 

[abc]

not really. pro sports is a job and pro soccer leagues exist all over the world. its a different conversation than international competition. i don't buy the 'traitor/mercenary' line on these olympic athletes, but comparing pro sports to international isn't apples v apples.

True, they aren't quite the same.

But let's face it, those who went to "represent" other country than their own are mostly the ones who felt they didn't have a good chance to make their own country's national team.

Why aren't the US media talk about the figure skating girl in the Chinese team? Because she didn't do well. It's pretty typical outcome of those 2nd tier athletes. But Eileen Gu found her groove, did well and got gold in the Olympics. All of a sudden, she's a "traitor".

It's just sour grapes.

 

[Domeskier]

Why aren't the US media talk about the figure skating girl in the Chinese team? Because she didn't do well. It's pretty typical outcome of those 2nd tier athletes. But Eileen Gu found her groove, did well and got gold in the Olympics. All of a sudden, she's a "traitor".

Are you talking about Beverly Zhu? Have you seen how her adopted homeland is treating her now after her performance in the team event? I guess if you want to compete for China as a foreigner you better be good. Or photogenic.

 

[abc]

Are you talking about Beverly Zhu? Have you seen how her adopted homeland is treating her now after her performance in the team event?

No, I haven't seen how she was treated. I wasn't paying attention to what happened IN China.

The western report I read mentioned SOME fans were critical of her poor performance. But isn't that pretty typical? And the reports were saying her teammates and coach were defending her. How else do you expect her to be treated differently? A hero's treatment when she fell in both the short and long program?

 

[JimG.]

Also of relevance to some of the discussion in this thread; I thought at the time that if I couldn't make the US team, maybe I could compete for Ireland due to my ancestry. Would I have been a traitor?

No.

But if you carefully crafted your career to maximize the amount of money you make from skiing and your decision to ski for Ireland was a part of that plan I would not think highly of you at all.

Think LeBron. OK to make money in China and ignore the genocide the Chinese perpetrate but ramble on incessantly about inequality in America. A true douchebag.

 

[abc]

But if you carefully crafted your career to maximize the amount of money you make from skiing and your decision to ski for Ireland was a part of that plan I would not think highly of you at all.

I guess that's how we see things differently. I wouldn't have thought any less of him.

Think LeBron. OK to make money in China and ignore the genocide the Chinese perpetrate but ramble on incessantly about inequality in America. A true douchebag.

That's different. Getting political for money is indeed a couchebag. We have plenty of those who do that without even bother leaving US soil.

But what about the Chinese dissidents who criticize their own country? Are they douchebag?

 

[JimG.]

I guess that's how we see things differently. I wouldn't have thought any less of him.


That's different. Getting political for money is indeed a couchebag. We have plenty of those who do that without even bother leaving US soil.

But what about the Chinese dissidents who criticize their own country? Are they douchebag?

Girl YOU can troll with the best of them! Not working on me.

BUT you can come fishing with me anytime!

 

[Domeskier]

The western report I read mentioned SOME fans were critical of her poor performance. But isn't that pretty typical?

No I don't think it's typical for a second-tier athlete (as you call her) to be the subject of a nation's wrath for poor performance at the olympics. Perhaps that is the case in China. Perhaps a home-grown second-tier Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" and causing the Weibo / the government to ban pejorative hashtags, delete user accounts and censor posts. I rather doubt it. I know you'll disagree.

 

[abc]

No I don't think it's typical for a second-tier athlete (as you call her) to be the subject of a nation's wrath for poor performance at the olympics. Perhaps that is the case in China. Perhaps a home-grown second-tier Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" and causing the Weibo / the government to ban pejorative hashtags, delete user accounts and censor posts. I rather doubt it. I know you'll disagree.

A lot of "perhaps"... (except you know without doubt I'll disagree! )

As a matter of fact, I did remember reading report of home-grown Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" (during the summer Olympics)

 

[Domeskier]

As a matter of fact, I did remember reading report of home-grown Chinese athlete who performed poorly would garner the attention of 200 million plus social media users with comments like "I don't know why someone like this was allowed to represent China" (during the summer Olympics)

Are you thinking of Wang Luyao? She was favored to win gold in Tokyo, not a second-tier athlete by any means.

 

[abc]

Are you thinking of Wang Luyao? She was favored to win gold in Tokyo, not a second-tier athlete by any means.

Probably. I'm no good with names. Just remember reading reports of similar, massive online abuse.

Zhu Yi may have been second tier in the US. She's probably top tier in China. Or she wouldn't have been chosen to represent China.

 

[JimG.]

And the 15 year old Russian figure skater apparently failed a doping test. She was favored to win gold.

15 years old. Go ahead and convince me that's not a shitty life for a kid.

 

[abc]

And the 15 year old Russian figure skater apparently failed a doping test. She was favored to win gold.

15 years old. Go ahead and convince me that's not a shitty life for a kid.

In what way it is shitty?

 

[Domeskier]

Probably. I'm no good with names. Just remember reading reports of similar, massive online abuse.

Zhu Yi may have been second tier in the US. She's probably top tier in China. Or she wouldn't have been chosen to represent China.

Certainly not favored for the podium and certainly not letting down any reasonable expectations. But you're right - the Americans criticizing Gu for skiing for China are just a bunch of middle class nationalists with limited imaginations and a bad case of sour grapes, while the Chinese criticizing Zhu are just passionate sports fans reacting without a tinge of xenophobia to the mediocre performance of a forum-shopping second-tier athlete in the same way they would any home grown athlete whose best hope was maybe a top 20 finish.

 

[deadheadskier]

In what way it is shitty?

Being 15 and believing you need drugs to get an advantage?

 

[abc]

Being 15 and believing you need drugs to get an advantage?

15 year olds are not known for their maturity and judgements.

Her "believe" in drug to get an advantage is no more evidence of a shittier life than those who found it fun to steal stop signs!

 

[abc]

Certainly not favored for the podium and certainly not letting down any reasonable expectations.

She may have let down some "reasonable" expectation of not falling and being last!

But sports is just that, 4 years of preparation and 3 minutes on ice. Being judged in 3 minutes for all of those 4 or more years of hard work. It takes a special type to perform when under pressure. Luck also plays a big part in it too.

Certain kind of sport fans are not my favorite group. Witness footfall fans in Europe rioting when their team lost (or out of control "celebration" when their team won!). Why they wrap their own happiness in their "sport hero" is beyond me. I don't know many people like that personally. But every time I hear someone criticizing an individual athlete's performance harshly, it's almost always from people who never done it themselves.

 

[deadheadskier]

15 year olds are not known for their maturity and judgements.

Her "believe" in drug to get an advantage is no more evidence of a shittier life than those who found it fun to steal stop signs!

Right, so she should have family and coaches guiding her to make the right choices. Chances are they didn't. That is shitty

 

[abc]

Right, so she should have family and coaches guiding her to make the right choices. Chances are they didn't. That is shitty

I'm pretty sure her coaches had a lot to answer for. But that's true for all teenagers. They are helped or hurt by the right or wrong guidance of their mentors. I just don't see it being all that different.