Belleayre and NYS Budget Cuts

[thinnmann]

Usually by this date we have purchased season passes and put kids into the racing program at Belleayre. I have been checking the Belleayre web site, where for the past month or so it has said they are working on pricing and programs for the coming season, please check back. There has been some controversy surrounding the proposed Belleayre Resort, and more from the unfair competition alleged against Belleayre by Hunter and Wyndham.

I received this email from the Belleayre Mountain Racing Association, the youth program my kids participate in. It says to pass it on, so:

PLEASE DO NOT DELETE THIS EMAIL
BELOW ARE 2 LETTERS FROM COACH RALPH AND ROSINA, A SKI PATROLLER @BELLEAYRE
PLEASE READ AND PASS ON

Hi All

Please take this seriously. Belleayre and our region need your support. NYS budget cuts are proposing a major funding shortfall for Belleayre Mt for the 08/09 season. The 08 Fall Festival for Columbus weekend has already been cancelled. The proposal for the winter is somewhere between operating one or two lifts with NO RACING, NO SKIWEE, NO ALPINE programs TO A COMPLETE SHUT DOWN OF BELLEAYRE FOR THE WINTER. Everyone associated with this community needs to support the continued operation of Belleayre. Please step forward and make your voice heard in favor of Belleayre Mt.

What can you do? Email or write DEC - www.dec.ny.gov/about/407.html
Email or write the Governor- www.ny.gov/governor/index.html

Thank You,

Ralph Combe Jr.
...address edit..

Dear Belleayre Ski Patrollers:
DEC has dealt Belleayre Ski Center a devastating budget. To this end the following has been decided:
The Octoberfest has been cancelled
Nursery will be not open
No skiwee, alpine development, or racing programs
Full time Patrol positions cut.
Limited snow making
Possible operation of only the Superchief.

What can you do?
Email or write DEC - www.dec.ny.gov/about/407.html
Email or write the Governor- www.ny.gov/governor/index.html

They need to hear from all of us. Do you know what this will do to Delaware and Ulster County economically? The Governor vetoed the proposed legislation to establish a Blue Ribbon Commission to look into public recreation (proposed by the lobbying of Green County - Hunter and Windham ). However, the same was accomplished by the budget cuts. They have killed Belleayre Ski Center , putting us back into the 70's and 80's. You may think I am being dramatic, but folks, if we don't do something about this, it is over. Send this to your friends and make this effort to contact the DEC and Governor mushroom. They need to hear from us so that they can understand the devastation this will cause.
Rosina​

 

[dmc]

I got an idea... How about stop giving away tickets and run the place like private place has to run..??? Stop making snow at the end of the season ...??? Slow expansion until they can afford it??? Stop giving away beer if can't be afforded...??
they already can use volunteer employess for no cost because they are exempt from a pile of labor laws......
they already don't have to worry about insurance like private ares do...
they already have exemption from administrative costs...
They already dont have to pay taxes...
I could go on...

So where is this $$ going...???


So - the first person spells Belleayre worse then I do,...

The second person reeks of whining to me...
"Daddy's(NYS) isn't paying my allowance anymore... I gotta live in the real world"
WAAAAH!!!!! WAAAAH!

Yeah... It's a tough business..
As a resident of the Catskills and a person they beg to take action - I hope Belleayre succeeds - I seriously do.... But Tony's gotta deal with reality.... The state has to level the playing field for private ski areas..... Unfair advantage is.... Well.... Unfair...

And as a NYS tax payer... And I pay a ton...
I'm starting to think my hard earned $$ is being mismanaged even hearing about this...
if you pay taxes... You should be able to ask for the government to be fair... Hunter, Windham and Plattekill have every right to complain... they pay taxes... It's one thing to have to compete with other private ski areas... But to have to compete with a business thats being subsidized by the government... Well.. Thats no fair to the very people that fund it...

Sorry for the rant... Good beer in Charlotte NC...

Hunter haters can all step in line now...

 

[ERJ-145CA]

Letters written, will be mailed tomorrow. That would suck to lose a great mountain and the early and late season player for the area.

 

[dmc]

Letters written, will be mailed tomorrow. That would suck to lose a great mountain and the early and late season player for the area.

Belleayre is NOT going anywhere... Relax... Send your kids to mountain creek...

It's not like NJ has to foot the bill for mismanagement that causes them to have to close Skiwi... that be my tax $$ wasted...

 

[ERJ-145CA]

Belleayre is NOT going anywhere... Relax... Send your kids to mountain creek...

It's not like NJ has to foot the bill for mismanagement that causes them to have to close Skiwi... that be my tax $$ wasted...

Mountain creek sux, my home mountain is Hidden Valley, it already sux that I have to drive 15 minutes to HV versus 10 minutes to MC.:smile:

Of course, if Belleayre isn't worth the drive and is not open early and late season that's 6 to 10 less trips to NY for me as Belleayre is the closest Catskill mountain. Which means not spending my money in your state and region and not paying Thruway tolls, gas and sales taxes in NY.

 

[dmc]

Mountain creek sux, my home mountain is Hidden Valley, it already sux that I have to drive 15 minutes to HV versus 10 minutes to MC.:smile:

So... Tell your state to buy the mountain and use your tax dollars to make HV better...

Simple....

 

[AdironRider]

Meh. I honestly could care less about losing Belleyare but it sucks they pissed millions of tax dollars down the tubes. Blowing snow last spring was retarded.

 

[ERJ-145CA]

So... Tell your state to buy the mountain and use your tax dollars to make HV better...

Simple....

My state can barely keep it's state parks and forests open.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Sucks..about Belleayre..I'll believe it when I see it happen..Hunter used to be open into late April and even early May in 1992. Now Belleayre is typically open a week or two later than Hunter. It's never that crowded..at least when I've been there...the new high speed quad..although on the lower side of the mountain is sa weet..leaving the other areas emptier..the deals are also great. Free skiing on your BDAY, free vouchers with early and late season purchases..rainchecks..and friendly employees. If this happens at Belleayre..Hunter and Windham are going to be mobbed..I kind of liked the fact that the skiing at Belleayre was subsidized by the taxpayers of NY State..taxes are freaking high in NY so at least some of it was put to good use..

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Meh. I honestly could care less about losing Belleyare but it sucks they pissed millions of tax dollars down the tubes. Blowing snow last spring was retarded.

I'm not a big fan of spring snowmaking because new manmade snow combined with warm temperatures can make for manky gluey snow..while older manmade is icier and faster..

 

[Geoff]

The obvious solution is for the state to lease the ski area to a private operator. There's no reason in the world why a properly managed ski area can't show a modest profit most years. ...particularly if you don't have a pile of debt run up to either buy the resort in the first place or update the infrastructure.

 

[hardline]

i really want to comment on this but i have had a few to many beers and i need to put some thought in to this. i have a feeling this going to be a pretty ugly thread.

 

[dmc]

If this happens at Belleayre..Hunter and Windham are going to be mobbed..I kind of liked the fact that the skiing at Belleayre was subsidized by the taxpayers of NY State..taxes are freaking high in NY so at least some of it was put to good use..

Aint gonna happen...

I'd personally rather have my tax $ go to something thats not mismanaged...

 

[dmc]

The obvious solution is for the state to lease the ski area to a private operator. There's no reason in the world why a properly managed ski area can't show a modest profit most years. ...particularly if you don't have a pile of debt run up to either buy the resort in the first place or update the infrastructure.

thank you...

 

[skidbump]

So,if this is true nys is going to devastate the region.
Limited opening will have a trickle down actually a gusher effect on economy
Seasonal home rentals will go first.Whole area on 28 from Kingston up will lose business and closer you get to ski area the worse it will be.There must be 100 full time and 200 to 300 part time seasonal employees at ski area all who pay taxes.Local business's all employ local people who pay taxes...this is not good for anyone... Closing or limiting area will kill the 28 corridor.

As far as the snow making went i believe it was for bare spots not base and with out aux generators it was pretty cheap to do.

At this time the only expansion has been a maint garage.No new trials in over 3 or 4 yrs no trail maint other than cutting grass..Tight glades/woods where never cleaned out from storm 3 seasons ago.

Free beer is not paid for by state.

 

[thinnmann]

More info

Daily Freeman article right here -:

and via email from Belleayre Mtn. Racing Association, this:

Coalition to Save Belleayre

Press Release 9/8/2008

For Immediate Release
Contact:
Joe Kelly

Coalition to Save Belleayre

Belleayre Supporters Decry
Cancellation of October Festival


Highmount, NY -- September 8, 2008 -- Supporters of Belleayre Mountain Ski Center reacted with outrage this week when they learned the extent of cutbacks to the ski center's operating budget for the coming season. Saying that these cuts "will destroy what's left of the Central Catskills' economy," Joe Kelly, chairman of the Coalition to Save Belleayre, called for a summit meeting of elected and appointed officials who represent the area and business leaders whose constituents will suffer if the budget cuts are allowed to stand as planned. Kelly said, "the Coalition has argued for more than 25 years that New York State has a special economic obligation to this area because of the extensive holding of forest preserve and watershed lands by the State and City of New York. We are here to see that this obligation is met."

According to Kelly, the ski center's October Festival, which has been a money-maker for the facility for most of its 20 plus years of operation, is the first casualty of potentially draconian cuts that would cripple the ski center. "This event brings as many as 16,000 people to our community in one single weekend," said Kelly. "It has made Columbus Day the biggest weekend of the year and filled hotel rooms from Kingston to Oneonta. Cutting this out will make our hotels and restaurants bleed profusely, to say nothing of the stores, gas stations and others who benefit."

Kelly went on to add that he - and all Belleayre Mt. supporters - understand the need for cuts and the fact that everyone in the state has to share in the pain of the current economy. "But this is going to be way more than our fair share," said an angry Kelly. "The state is already nearly halfway through its fiscal year so agencies that already spent money, like New York State camp grounds preparing to close for the year, get no budget cut impact. In the meantime, we're facing a huge budget cut, the extent of which is only now becoming apparent," Kelly added. "In fact, these are 'in-and-out' revenues that don't actually save anything, and actually cost the state lost ticket and sales tax revenue."

"Sources tell us that in addition to the cutting of the festival, that the ski season could be a month or more shorter than it was last year, that the ski center could operate at less than its full capacity even during the height of the season and that staff people will lose their jobs," said Kelly. "We will never be able to recoup this loss - even if they bring us back to full operation next year. We've worked too hard for the last three decades to sit back silently and watch this happen."

Kelly went on to point out that not only do all of the local businesses who depend on Belleayre Mt. suffer - many of them may be forced out of business permanently - but so too do the counties who depend on the sales tax and bed tax generated by these visitors. "The economic blow to Ulster and Delaware counties cannot be over estimated," said Kelly. "These counties are already suffering from severe economic setbacks and these cutbacks at Belleayre will just push us over the edge." Kelly cited a survey done of businesses in the region in 2000 and noted that since that time nearly 20% of the respondent businesses were closed because of a lingering depression in the area. "Adding this to that is just a blow we can not and will not accept."

Noting that the cancellation of the annual October Festival came in the same week that Governor Patterson vetoed a blue ribbon commission to study the fairness of Belleayre's operation, Kelly said that some people in his organization believe the budget cuts are related to the lobbying Greene County has done to curtail Belleayre's operation. "We certainly hope that this is not the case. But it makes no sense to cancel one of your biggest money-making events in a single year," said Kelly. "And once you are open and operating, it makes absolutely no sense to only operate part of your capital investment," he added. "I don't know if people in state government are caving to pressure from Greene County to hold Belleayre Mt. back, but we certainly intend to look at that possibility."

Kelly said his group, the Coalition to Save Belleayre, has called an emergency meeting to review the budget issues and develop a strategy for addressing them. "We had busses in Albany in March and we might need to get them up there again in October," said Kelly. At this point, we need to talk with others in the region and figure out a plan of attack. "But this I can say for sure. We've been fighting for this ski center for more than a quarter of a century and except in 1984 when Mario Cuomo tried to close it, this is as bad as it gets. We will not sit back quietly and let the State and the DEC make up their budget crisis on our backs."​

 

[deadheadskier]

The obvious solution is for the state to lease the ski area to a private operator. There's no reason in the world why a properly managed ski area can't show a modest profit most years. ...particularly if you don't have a pile of debt run up to either buy the resort in the first place or update the infrastructure.

They should lease it to the Muellers, seemed to work for Sunapee

 

[jamesdeluxe]

thank you...

While I understand your calls for an even playing field, you spend so much time talking about how Hunter and Belleayre are two completely different ski experiences attracting different kinds of people (I agree), then claim that Belleayre has seriously cut into Hunter's market share. If prices were exactly the same, do you think people who were skiing/riding at Belleayre would suddenly become Hunter regulars and vice versa?

You can't have it both ways. At the end of the day, will people will go where it's cheaper or where they like the terrain/vibe?

 

[Richard Ellis]

Plan to Crush Belleayre

The Governor's intentions are revealed by the DEC's decision to cancel the Belleayre October Fall Festival. The weekend event does not cost the State or Belleayre any money. It makes money for Belleayre as well as local businesses. Canceling it reduces the programs Belleayre can offer even if State support for Belleayre is not cut. Suspiciously cuts to ski programs and staff began to leak out a day after the Governor vetoed the Hunter, Wyndham, Belleayre study. No announcement by the DEC or the Governor has been made about these cuts even though they have they have been in the works since the beginning of August. I say this because every year I receive a letter from Belleayre by then outlining programs for the new season. This year there was no letter and when I called I was told pricing had not been received from Albany. This has never happened before. Perhaps Governor Paterson is hoping no one will notice his efforts to crush Belleayre until the damage is irreversible.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

So,if this is true nys is going to devastate the region.
Limited opening will have a trickle down actually a gusher effect on economy
Seasonal home rentals will go first.Whole area on 28 from Kingston up will lose business and closer you get to ski area the worse it will be.There must be 100 full time and 200 to 300 part time seasonal employees at ski area all who pay taxes.Local business's all employ local people who pay taxes...this is not good for anyone... Closing or limiting area will kill the 28 corridor.

As far as the snow making went i believe it was for bare spots not base and with out aux generators it was pretty cheap to do.

At this time the only expansion has been a maint garage.No new trials in over 3 or 4 yrs no trail maint other than cutting grass..Tight glades/woods where never cleaned out from storm 3 seasons ago.

Free beer is not paid for by state.

For sure..the 28 corridor is already incredibly depressed. Phoenicia is a nice little town but look at Fleishmans..that town is a hole...The Deleware court motel, a mini-mart and liquor store is all there is..What happened to the proposed Belleayre resort??? The poverty I've seen in the Catskills is way worse than down here in PA..because at least down here..there are lots of low-wage jobs..up there..it seems like people are fighting to get a job at a gas station..