Belleayre and NYS Budget Cuts

[skidbump]

Belleayres web site states they are waiting to price services and head of DEC is invited to area in October..At this rate seasonal renters will have bailed if not already,Snow sport employees will have applied and taken instructor jobs at other mountains,seasonal mountain employees will have looked and maybe found other jobs for winter,season pass holders will look for other mountains,local ski shops will have cut back on inventory and employees again will find other jobs,Ski clubs will have booked bus trips to other mountains,race programs will practice at other areas,and these are just the issues that are at the mountain.
Running a race program on limited terrain is just plain dangerous.Picture early season crowds on the limited terrain due to no snow and then add race teams using up most the available terrain.
Also heard that this boils down to State Senator John J. Bonacic not switching over to democratic party and we all know what happens when political back stabbing gets into the equation.

finished for now i am

 

[catskills]

Daily Freeman Article Today - DEC Head May Visit Belleayre

My personal opinion is the NY State would lose a lot more than it saved by cutting back Belleayre's budget this ski season. The folks that are put out of a job would still be getting a check in the mail, food stamps, and not working. The hard facts are the folks on the Route 28 corridor want to work. They just need a chance.

 

[legalskier]

Here is the pertinent language from the state constitution:
"Section 1. The lands of the state, now owned or hereafter acquired,
constituting the forest preserve as now fixed by law, shall be forever
kept as wild forest lands. They shall not be leased, sold or
exchanged, or be taken by any corporation, public or private, nor
shall the timber thereon be sold, removed or destroyed. Nothing herein
contained shall prevent the state from ...
constructing and maintaining not more than
twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide,
together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than two
miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet
wide, on the slopes of Belleayre Mountain...."
(The full text, including references to Whiteface and Gore, can be found by clicking on the link posted by thinnmann on 9-9-08 at 11:24 p.m.)
It's clear that the citizens specifically voted not only to continue Belleayre but to expand it. Which begs the question, why is Albany ignoring the express language of its own state constitution? It would be interesting to see some party or parties go into court to seek injunctive relief to enforce this language. Section 5 authorizes such actions: "A violation of any of the provisions of this article
may be restrained at the suit of the people or, with the consent
of the supreme court in appellate division, on notice to the
attorney-general at the suit of any citizen." A lawsuit, of course, could force an investigation, through use of subpoena power, into all the machinations hidden from view that have brought us to this point.

 

[thinnmann]

Belleayres web site states they are waiting to price services and head of DEC is invited to area in October..At this rate seasonal renters will have bailed if not already,Snow sport employees will have applied and taken instructor jobs at other mountains,seasonal mountain employees will have looked and maybe found other jobs for winter,season pass holders will look for other mountains,local ski shops will have cut back on inventory and employees again will find other jobs,Ski clubs will have booked bus trips to other mountains,race programs will practice at other areas,and these are just the issues that are at the mountain.
Running a race program on limited terrain is just plain dangerous.Picture early season crowds on the limited terrain due to no snow and then add race teams using up most the available terrain.
Also heard that this boils down to State Senator John J. Bonacic not switching over to democratic party and we all know what happens when political back stabbing gets into the equation.

finished for now i am

Belleayre's web site is really bad - which is one of the reasons I started blogging Belleayre. I have not had time to include all this stuff there because it takes time just following it here at AZ - maybe I can cut & paste my posts and link the articles eventually.... but that is not what I am posting about here...

If you can take me as an example, I have already decided not to buy season tix at Bell this winter (unless they have some kind of last-minute crazy discount fire-sale on them) because it looks like I will be forced to ski at a bunch of other mountains to keep my kid in the race program with the other kids and coaches she knows, likes, and that I trust. I have not rented the house I usually rent in Halcott, because things are so up in the air - so that home owner needs to find some other way to fill the oil tank.

and re; the political back-stabbing... I am not sure about that, but let me restate my conspiracy theory: If they squelch or kill Bell for a season, squeeze the balls out of the local economy, opposition for The Belleayre Resort will turn around because it will be looked at as the economic savior of the area. Now if that isn't politically connected in so many ways, I don't know what is....

 

[evantrentful]

As Skibump said, I think alot of the damage is already being done and setting Belleayre up for what will be a snowball effect. With only a few months before the season starting and a complete lack of set plans, Belleayre frequents (season pass holders, program members, workers, etc) are going to be slowly be trickling away, given deadlines for cheaper passes at other resorts and job positions available so by the time they figure out whats going to happen it really wont matter anymore. the damage will be done and this season will end up being a disaster for belleayre from an attendance standpoint. Factor in the potential for decreased operations and the losses are going to mount. It still takes a minimal amount of resources to operate the mountain in a limited function. I suspect costs wont drop as much as attendance and they will be worse off had this whole drawn out process never occured.

 

[dmc]

I am not sure about that, but let me restate my conspiracy theory: If they squelch or kill Bell for a season, squeeze the balls out of the local economy, opposition for The Belleayre Resort will turn around because it will be looked at as the economic savior of the area. Now if that isn't politically connected in so many ways, I don't know what is....

I can't help thinking that myself... A ballsy and dangerous move...

If it's true... they should "rot in hell" for hurting the area.... And should pay a price for doing so...

I hope it because on incompetence rather then game playing...

 

[catskills]

I can't help thinking that myself... A ballsy and dangerous move...

If it's true... they should "rot in hell" for hurting the area.... And should pay a price for doing so...

I hope it because on incompetence rather then game playing...

Maybe the thinking lets cut Belleaye from 175,000 visits down to 90,000 visits. Then lets see what ski areas pick up the Belleaye skiers. Gore documents state 45 percent of their skier visits are from the Hudson River Valley and points south. It may not be only Hunter and Windham that want to feed off Belleayre's lost skier visits, Gore and Whiteface may also want to increase their skier visit counts. ORDA Borrows $1.2 Million for Gore and Whiteface - total borrowed $9.2 Million . Difficult to say what political deals are being done behind closed doors. :flag:

 

[dmc]

Maybe the thinking lets cut Belleaye from 175,000 visits down to 90,000 visits. Then lets see what ski areas pick up the Belleaye skiers. Gore documents state 45 percent of their skier visits are from the Hudson River Valley and points south. It may not be only Hunter and Windham that want to feed off Belleayre's lost skier visits, Gore and Whiteface may also want to increase their skier visit counts. ORDA Borrows $1.2 Million for Gore and Whiteface - total borrowed $9.2 Million . Difficult to say what political deals are being done behind closed doors. :flag:

maybe with economy in the crapper the extra will just not ski.....

I have heard of some Belleayre instructors coming to Hunter...

I'm sure they will be welcomed with open arms until the situation can stabilize in the other valley.....

 

[andrec10]

To the misplaced racers...

If any of you are thinking of coming over to Hunter, you may want to give Jim Catalano (Race Director) a buzz if you have any questions.

 

[skidbump]

What really bugs me is no one has the balls to say exactly what is happening.I know they"people at mountain" check out this forum.Not one word..They have been working on pricing for over a month and not 1 word from anybody..That just plain asinine.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

Even if Belleayre operates normally this season...they received so much bad press the past few weeks..Their marketing guys need to come up with some sort of strategy if they get decent last minute funds from the state..

 

[hardline]

Even if Belleayre operates normally this season...they received so much bad press the past few weeks..Their marketing guys need to come up with some sort of strategy if they get decent last minute funds from the state..

i would imagine that if things aren't solid by this weekend they will lose a shitton of biz

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

i would imagine that if things aren't solid by this weekend they will lose a shitton of biz

For sure...I'm not going to want to ski there if only the Superchief chair is running..

 

[jamesdeluxe]

let me restate my conspiracy theory: If they squelch or kill Bell for a season, squeeze the balls out of the local economy, opposition for The Belleayre Resort will turn around because it will be looked at as the economic savior of the area. Now if that isn't politically connected in so many ways, I don't know what is....

It sounds like you've got the makings of a new Oliver Stone movie... so let's hear the whole theory and which politicians and business people are involved. How are the strings being pulled? How are they keeping it quiet?

Wouldn't it be easier to just pay for a couple well-connected lobbyists?

 

[RootDKJ]

to make matters worse - Belleayre is exempt from labor laws that are enforced at private areas... Meaning they can hire "volunteers" like ambassadors and pay them with a season pass... Hunter hasn't been able to do that for a long time... The state came in and told them everyone had to be on a w2.
.

couldn't Hunter tax the volunteers for the cost of the lift ticket? 28% of the cost of the lift ticket could only be around $200. I realize that it's pretty shitty to tax a volunteer, but since it's a for profit business i would think that's around the law.

 

[k2 four]

21 days

I don't think the big powers behind Belleayre understand what is about to happen: Families are going to migrate to other mountains, rent homes elsewhere, eat out elsewhere, drink the beer in some other bar, teach at some other mountain, enroll their children in some other program, etc., etc...... This is only the immediate fall-out.

The huge issue happens when those same families make friends at the new mountain, their kids make friends, they find their favorite restaurant, they become comfortable with the new commute, they discover the beer to be pretty good at the new bar, they enjoy their new rental home, etc, etc. These folks are likely to not come back to Belleayre once the state gets their sh*t together. Belleayre will be rebuilding for years.

The clock is ticking. Most areas have early season discounts that run out around October 15th. People are realizing that vacation rentals are filling-up elsewhere. Program deadlines are approaching. I feel that Belleayre has about 21 days before the clock strikes 12 and there will be no turning back.

Judging by how NY State operates, the full funding should be awarded around Thanksgiving.

 

[catskills]

It looks like one of Ulster Counties finest politicians thinks he has the answer.

Donaldson proposes regional ski pass for the the Catskills

I don't think Donaldson gets it. If NY State cuts Belleayre's budget, then Ulster County and greater NY State will loose a lot of tax revenue from tourism. Restore the Belleayre budget first and then you can talk about promoting the entire Catskills region. Cut the Belleayre budget and more skiers will be staying home, going out west or going to Vermont for skiing and snowboarding. :smash:

 

[dmc]

couldn't Hunter tax the volunteers for the cost of the lift ticket? 28% of the cost of the lift ticket could only be around $200. I realize that it's pretty shitty to tax a volunteer, but since it's a for profit business i would think that's around the law.

Proabably easier just to pay them...

 

[ed-drum]

How does this relate to a "Oliver Stone movie"? Do people think that his movies are ALL "conspiracy theories"? Was "Platoon" a conspiracy movie? He directed Any given Sunday, Born on the Fourth of July, The Doors, The Hand, Natural Born Killers, Nixon, Salvador, Seizure, Talk Radio, U-Turn, Wall Street, et-al.. The only "conspiracy theory" movie he did was JFK. I guess there are no "conspiracies" in world history. I suppose that Julius Caesar wasn't murdered by senators in a "conspiracy" either. The Gulf of Tonkin incident that started the escalation of the Viet Nam war, which has been proven to have been a total fabrication wasn't a "conspiracy" either. Then again, Admiral Francis Morrison who was at the Gulf of Tonkin was Jim Morrison's father. Belleayre is a "conspiracy theory"? Give me a break! "Have I then become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" Galations, 4:16

 

[hardline]

For sure...I'm not going to want to ski there if only the Superchief chair is running..

but dont you find yourself by the end of the day over on the otherside doing power laps down dot