Best Point and Shoot

[Geoff]

Olympus XZ-1 looks great. Serious competition for Canon S95 and Pani LX5.

LX5 has a lens cap manual if that matters.

S95 is the smallest and slimmest of the top line P&S segment.

If you aren't going to use the advanced features, there isn't a whole lot of point to high end P&S (IMO). Its not like you get a massively bigger sensor. For that you could step up to M43 or DSLR. Some M43 are jacket pocketable with a pancake lens. Less convenient but much bigger sensor and good fps rates.

I'm micro 4:3. My Olympus PEN E-P2 is jacket pocketable with the stock 14-42mm lens. I usually use the 14-150mm lens and put the lens in one pocket / camera body in the other. My biggest complaint about the camera is that the electronic viewfinder that slides into the hot shoe doesn't lock in place. It's a serious design oversight.

 

[Abubob]

All this discussion has really got me thinking about selling my Canon EOS Rebel XS because its just too bulky to ski or hike or bike ride with anymore. Plus the associated bags I bought to lug this thing around. I got it because at the time I wanted a DSLR but couldn't afford the 40D. Still can't so I'm going compact.

I'm either gonna get a Canon G12 or D10 or The Casio Exilim EX-ZR100 (suggested here) because of the 9.5 burst mode. (I can't find any where what the continuous frames are.) It does a 1000 fps movie mode that might be cool to play with.

 

[Nick]

The Rebel XS will blow away the others, if you know how to use it properly. A camera is like any other tool, you have to know how to use it... otherwise results will be meh.

 

[riverc0il]

I'm either gonna get a Canon G12 or D10 or The Casio Exilim EX-ZR100 (suggested here) because of the 9.5 burst mode. (I can't find any where what the continuous frames are.) It does a 1000 fps movie mode that might be cool to play with.

Can't stress enough to find out about the buffer size and time to clear. Buffer is just as important as fps. Big whoop if you can fire off 9.5fps if the camera freezes for 10 seconds after 1 second of shooting. When you start getting up to 10fps, you are getting way more shots than you really need any ways because even in action shots skiers are not moving that fast that shooting that fast is going to be the difference. I find 5fps to be more than enough... especially if you can keep shooting at that rate...

 

[riverc0il]

I'm micro 4:3. My Olympus PEN E-P2 is jacket pocketable with the stock 14-42mm lens. I usually use the 14-150mm lens and put the lens in one pocket / camera body in the other. My biggest complaint about the camera is that the electronic viewfinder that slides into the hot shoe doesn't lock in place. It's a serious design oversight.

Pocketable to me = with the lens on. I ain't gonna shot if I need to attach the lens and worry about two caps every time I want to shoot while skiing.

I don't find the 14-42mm lens on the camera body to be jacket pocketable at all. With the Pani 14mm pancake (w/uv filter) I find it to be just pocketable enough for my tastes but still a tad bulky. I'm a little pissed they released the smaller E-PM1 just half a year after I got an E-PL2. Another year or two and I'm sure they'll have bodies making the LX5 look big.

 

[Abubob]

The Rebel XS will blow away the others, if you know how to use it properly. A camera is like any other tool, you have to know how to use it... otherwise results will be meh.

I really love the camera - don't get me wrong. I just don't like taking it anywhere without a car.

Can't stress enough to find out about the buffer size and time to clear. Buffer is just as important as fps. Big whoop if you can fire off 9.5fps if the camera freezes for 10 seconds after 1 second of shooting. When you start getting up to 10fps, you are getting way more shots than you really need any ways because even in action shots skiers are not moving that fast that shooting that fast is going to be the difference. I find 5fps to be more than enough... especially if you can keep shooting at that rate...

I find burst modes work better if you set the resolution lower. That being said 5 mpx is plenty for posting or printing snap shots (not so hot for enlarging). Plus burst modes are just that - they really are meant to be short. My feeling is if you want long continuos shots take video.

Bottom line for me is even though I've skied with an SLR and DSLR for years I prefer the compact sizes.

BTW - This is a video still - so if the video rez is there you can get great shots without worrying about burst mode buffers.

Is this thing on? by Bob Misu, on Flickr

 

[Geoff]

Bottom line for me is even though I've skied with an SLR and DSLR for years I prefer the compact sizes.

Sure, but I think your Canon brand loyalty is not serving you well at the moment. The G12 is not best-of-breed in high end compacts (though I like the optical viewfinder). It's not like 5 years ago when the PowerShot G was every pro photographer's spare camera. The D10's only claim to fame is being waterproof. It's not a very compelling camera. Canon makes really good DSLR camera bodies and their EF lenses are superb. Their compact, pocket, and super zoom cameras aren't as compelling.

 

[nlmasopust]

Have extensively used a Canon G9 and Canon S95.

G9 does very well on the snow, doesn't botch contrast like many P/S cameras I've seen. The S95 I purchased in the spring and haven't used on the snow except indoor snow. I do have more than 2000 shots on it already, though. The S95 is the best low-light P/S camera I've ever seen. Aperture goes down to F2.0!!!

Full manual control is reasonably easy with several ways to adjust settings on camera. For an extra $180 you can get a waterproof case good to 130ft available with weights for those of you that dive/snorkel. This case is about the size of a DSLR with a wide-angle lens on it. Pretty tough, great for kayaking and sailing, don't have to worry about the camera breaking or getting wet. You can operate everything including the rotary ring around the lens through the case. (While really cool, I don't find myself using the rotary ring very much, it's kinda awkward to reach)

This guy has a great review on the S95, S100 and pretty much every camera out there:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/s95.htm

I'd say spend the money and get an S95 or S100. I'd do it again in an instant.

 

[David Metsky]

Sure, but I think your Canon brand loyalty is not serving you well at the moment. The G12 is not best-of-breed in high end compacts (though I like the optical viewfinder). It's not like 5 years ago when the PowerShot G was every pro photographer's spare camera. The D10's only claim to fame is being waterproof. It's not a very compelling camera. Canon makes really good DSLR camera bodies and their EF lenses are superb. Their compact, pocket, and super zoom cameras aren't as compelling.

I agree with you about the D10 (and pretty much any waterproof cameras), they are great if you are going to be swimming or paddling but otherwise they aren't really needed. Image quality is sacrificed for all that robustness that isn't needed for skiing photography.

But the G12's optical view finder is a huge deal when skiing, IMO. I find that I can't really track fast moving skiers without a view finder of some sort and most cameras with electronic view finders are too big to pocket. I really would like a better burst mode, that's the G12's biggest flaw, and I hope it is addressed in a new release. But the OVF, excellent image quality, and pocketable size still make the G12 a viable choice.

If you can give up the view finder then I think there are other excellent options out there.

 

[Abubob]

Sure, but I think your Canon brand loyalty is not serving you well at the moment. The G12 is not best-of-breed in high end compacts (though I like the optical viewfinder). It's not like 5 years ago when the PowerShot G was every pro photographer's spare camera. The D10's only claim to fame is being waterproof. It's not a very compelling camera. Canon makes really good DSLR camera bodies and their EF lenses are superb. Their compact, pocket, and super zoom cameras aren't as compelling.

I cannot disagree. Especially about the D10. What got me interested in the PowerShot G series are photos I've seen on flickr from two photographers that hike in the Whites quite a lot. My favorite is Gary Tomkins. His shot of Washington on an October hike caught my eye. I asked him what software he used and he told me 'none' this was straight off the camera. I was sold. This from a G10 .... now he uses a G11.


Mts Eisenhower, Monroe, & Washington by Gary Tompkins, on Flickr

 

[Geoff]

But the G12's optical view finder is a huge deal when skiing, IMO. I find that I can't really track fast moving skiers without a view finder of some sort and most cameras with electronic view finders are too big to pocket. I really would like a better burst mode, that's the G12's biggest flaw, and I hope it is addressed in a new release. But the OVF, excellent image quality, and pocketable size still make the G12 a viable choice.

If you can give up the view finder then I think there are other excellent options out there.

I have owned a couple of PowerShot Gx's though not the most recent ones. I think you've noticed me whine over and over about optical viewfinders and that's always been an essential feature of the PowerShot G family. The optics have always been very good. The problem is that the electronics haven't kept pace with the competition. The camera didn't get HD video until the G12 a year ago and it's not a great implementation. The zoom isn't very good at a time when 10x optical zoom is kind-a given. The autofocus is slow for that class of camera and yields a shutter speed of around 500 mSec compared to closer to 200 mSec for the best of the performance pocket cameras. Continuous shooting mode is similarly slow.

The Olympus and Panny micro 4:3 cameras have nice add-on electronic viewfinders that slide into a hot shoe. I'm hoping that you'll start seeing them on the performance super zoom pocket cameras.

 

[Abubob]

I agree with you about the D10 (and pretty much any waterproof cameras), they are great if you are going to be swimming or paddling but otherwise they aren't really needed. Image quality is sacrificed for all that robustness that isn't needed for skiing photography.

But the G12's optical view finder is a huge deal when skiing, IMO. I find that I can't really track fast moving skiers without a view finder of some sort and most cameras with electronic view finders are too big to pocket. I really would like a better burst mode, that's the G12's biggest flaw, and I hope it is addressed in a new release. But the OVF, excellent image quality, and pocketable size still make the G12 a viable choice.

If you can give up the view finder then I think there are other excellent options out there.

I have owned a couple of PowerShot Gx's though not the most recent ones. I think you've noticed me whine over and over about optical viewfinders and that's always been an essential feature of the PowerShot G family. The optics have always been very good. The problem is that the electronics haven't kept pace with the competition. The camera didn't get HD video until the G12 a year ago and it's not a great implementation. The zoom isn't very good at a time when 10x optical zoom is kind-a given. The autofocus is slow for that class of camera and yields a shutter speed of around 500 mSec compared to closer to 200 mSec for the best of the performance pocket cameras. Continuous shooting mode is similarly slow.

The Olympus and Panny micro 4:3 cameras have nice add-on electronic viewfinders that slide into a hot shoe. I'm hoping that you'll start seeing them on the performance super zoom pocket cameras.

I get the point about the G12 not being an action camera - definitely a strike against. There's still two things I like about it though. Clarity and color unmatched in almost any camera that I've seen.

Can you recommend two or three cameras that come close to the quality of the G12 while being a better action camera? For instance which Olympus and Panosonics?

So far the list for comparison is:

Canon G12
Olympus PenE-PM1 (riverc0il)
Casio EX ZR100 (David Metsky)

 

[Abubob]

Most of you may not like the G12 but this is a pretty cool (albeit gimmicky) feature:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/movies.dpreview.com/canon_g12/miniatureeffectmovie.MOV

I'm still leanin' this way...

 

[bvibert]

Most of you may not like the G12 but this is a pretty cool (albeit gimmicky) feature:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/movies.dpreview.com/canon_g12/miniatureeffectmovie.MOV

I'm still leanin' this way...

Built-in tilt-shift effect? That's pretty cool, but like you said kind of gimmicky...

 

[Nick]

I took some tilt shift photos with my s95 at Wachusett last year, ill post them later

 

[riverc0il]

Can you recommend two or three cameras that come close to the quality of the G12 while being a better action camera? For instance which Olympus and Panosonics?

So far the list for comparison is:

Canon G12
Olympus PenE-PM1 (riverc0il)
Casio EX ZR100 (David Metsky)

I think any comparison shopping for high end P&S cameras should include M43 considerations, which is why I interjected. But you gotta decide whether you want to deal with a system camera or not. No use comparing P&S, M43, or even DSLR against each other.... you gotta pick your market and compare within, not against, markets.

 

[Abubob]

I think any comparison shopping for high end P&S cameras should include M43 considerations, which is why I interjected. But you gotta decide whether you want to deal with a system camera or not. No use comparing P&S, M43, or even DSLR against each other.... you gotta pick your market and compare within, not against, markets.

Yes, I did notice that the PMI had interchangeable lenses. But compared image quality just the same on dpreview. (They are very close in color and sharpness.) Kinda put it out of the running for me because I really don't want to try to collect or carry extra lenses right now. I may as well keep the Rebel.

The G12's lens, though, isn't flush like many compacts either which would explain some if its high image quality. I count that as a strike against it as it might make it difficult to stow in an inside coat pocket or even a small pouch under the parka.

I gotta say that the image test for the Casio ZR100 wasn't favorable to me. If that's the image quality indicative to a compact then I really don't want it.

You're correct to compare apples and apples, however, if I don't find what I consider decent photo quality in a compact (with a flush lens) then I will consider other options.

 

[thetrailboss]

Yeah, so now that I have sung its praises, my Canon A570 is acting up. It doesn't remember the date and time.....even with a new CR1220 battery. Annoying. Anyone else have the same problem? Ideas?

 

[David Metsky]

If you are looking at G12 levels of control and quality in a small form factor there are only a few options:

• Canon S100
• Panasonic LX-5
• Olympus XZ-1
• Fuji X10
• Sony WX10

The M4/3 and other EVIL cameras are cool, but they don't IMO take the place of a pocket camera, especially for skiing where you want no protruding lenses. None of these have a very large zoom lens, but that is a result of large sensor size and high quality glass. The Casio I mentioned earlier has a great burst mode but its image quality is just average. It's not in the same class as these cameras.

 

[Nick]

These are kind of crummy pics but it was when I first got the S95 last year I was playing around at Wachusett with it... this is the tilt shift mode