Big Jay experiences post cut this winter?

[deadheadskier]

I'm curious how the restricted access to Big Jay from Jay proper has affected the skiing back there this winter.

Noticeably less trafic?

Are many people breaking the rules and skiing around the fence to access it?

How's the infamous 'cut' doing? Are people staying off of it?

Any pictures of said 'cut' from Jay proper during winter?

 

[billski]

skinin' in from 242. That's the only ones who are getting the goods this year.

 

[riverc0il]

skinin' in from 242. That's the only ones who are getting the goods this year.

Incorrect, unfortunately. :evil::evil::evil: Report last week on FTO indicated people were indeed coming down off the ridge without regard to potential long term implications of violating the restriction this year.

 

[billski]

Incorrect, unfortunately. :evil::evil::evil: Report last week on FTO indicated people were indeed coming down off the ridge without regard to potential long term implications of violating the restriction this year.

so let's get correct then. the armed GMC guards are no longer posted???? (I'm being half-serious here...)

 

[riverc0il]

It was never their intention to post people on the ridge from what they originally said when the access restriction was enabled. I have heard rumor that the ridge has been patrolled, though that is still unconfirmed.

 

[millerm277]

Incorrect, unfortunately. :evil::evil::evil: Report last week on FTO indicated people were indeed coming down off the ridge without regard to potential long term implications of violating the restriction this year.

Is there a sign or something posted there? Kind of ridiculous to expect everyone to know.

 

[riverc0il]

There is a sign and a fence. Pictures were posted somewhere, can't recall where though. The fence is probably mostly buried by now, not sure if any additional measures have been put in place. Most people that ski Big Jay know. But, that said, there certainly has been and continues to be a complete near total lack of reach out and education by the three organizations involved with putting the ban in place. One meeting, a press release, and a sign are the beginnings, not the completeness, of an awareness and educational campaign.

 

[deadheadskier]

There is a sign and a fence. Pictures were posted somewhere, can't recall where though. The fence is probably mostly buried by now, not sure if any additional measures have been put in place. Most people that ski Big Jay know. But, that said, there certainly has been and continues to be a complete near total lack of reach out and education by the three organizations involved with putting the ban in place. One meeting, a press release, and a sign are the beginnings, not the completeness, of an awareness and educational campaign.

I hope that communication and monitoring improves.


This all said, has the cut been skied? I would hate to hear that it has. Even if the efforts are dissappointing so far, I would hope that they have helped at least a little towards their intended goals.

 

[awf170]

I saw atleast 10 people coming over the ridge on Saturday. Also, the lower part of the cut was very skied out. (Didn't see the upper part) Probably the most skied thing on Big Jay. People suck...

 

[deadheadskier]

I saw atleast 10 people coming over the ridge on Saturday. Also, the lower part of the cut was very skied out. (Didn't see the upper part) Probably the most skied thing on Big Jay. People suck...

that's unfortunate

Has the GMC put up any fencing around the cut to discourage people skiing it? You'll never keep 100% of people off of it as like you said, 'people suck'.

 

[ski220]

Let's see - using the Mt. Mansfield stake as a baseline for snow depths, I think it's around 85 inches now, they would need to erect a fence,say,12 feet high to keep people out? Hmmmm. How much damage is one going to do on top of 7 feet of snow, and from my experience Big JAy is deeper than Mt. MAnsfield stake. Have they replanted on the cut? Has the publicity enticed even more people? Just wondering.

 

[riverc0il]

that's unfortunate

Has the GMC put up any fencing around the cut to discourage people skiing it? You'll never keep 100% of people off of it as like you said, 'people suck'.

The GMC argued against a fence on two aspects. The first was they considered any man made obstacle on Big Jay a liability if someone got "tangled" in the fencing and hurt themselves. The second front is that Big Jay is supposed to be a natural area and free of permanent man made creations.

I think this is poor reasoning on two fronts. The fencing does not have to be permanent and it could be something that could been very unlikely to tangle someone up in. My suggestion has been that large tape used to denote the boundary of Jay applied with some signs. People may be skiing the cut unknowingly for all any one knows (not likely, but I am sure some people are just looking for the most open line to ski). It would not stop everyone but at least give some people some pause.

I am starting to become convinced that GMC et al. are going to come down even more firmly on the issue next year. It wouldn't be bad if a few bad apples were jumping the fence and hiking out over the shoulder. But if lots of people are not only violating the closure but also giving the big FU to the powers that be by skiing the cut, it will be noticed and we may see more restrictions enforced next season. :evil:

 

[riverc0il]

you guys need to find a tree to hug .. sorry but you act like mountains and trees are permanent or something .. I have heard that in the past over 90% of New England was cleared land... people hated the effieltower initially also...

Right. So let's all grab some chain saws and hack our own 20-60 foot wide trails out of public land. I am no tree hugger and I love skiing trees (not clear cut trails). But closure of the cut on Big Jay was justified, closure of the saddle was not. This is not an action to condone, especially on the basis of past clear cutting or initial dislike of a man made object.

 

[riverc0il]

Let's see - using the Mt. Mansfield stake as a baseline for snow depths, I think it's around 85 inches now, they would need to erect a fence,say,12 feet high to keep people out? Hmmmm. How much damage is one going to do on top of 7 feet of snow, and from my experience Big JAy is deeper than Mt. MAnsfield stake. Have they replanted on the cut? Has the publicity enticed even more people? Just wondering.

My thought was a variable height fence, via tape like Jay's boundary marking. They could easily make two or three different passes at different heights. A standard fence would definitely not be feasable.

The argument that damage would not be done to the ecology of the cut after enough base depth has been built was a central argument at the public meeting last month. Not much comment from the powers that be on that issue. They did not have any knowledge or statistics to back them up because they never researched that issue it seemed like. I still would like to hear someone say differently that skiing on a four foot or more base would case impact to the ecology.

The cut has not been replanted but they did to erosion control measures. Evidence of erosion was already seen as early as either October or November when the work day was done.

I am sure the publicity has definitely increased the number of people that have skied out there. The powers that be claim they have no control over the media. Apparently, they only utilize the media to spread the word when it benefits them because they could have done a campaign to spread the word about the issues and educate the public.

 

[awf170]

you guys need to find a tree to hug .. sorry but you act like mountains and trees are permanent or something .. I have heard that in the past over 90% of New England was cleared land... people hated the effieltower initially also...

My opinion has nothing to do with the environment. I know that skiing this cut right now does absolutely no damage. I care about Big Jay being completely closed next year and for years to come because people cannot listen to a few simple rules.

 

[JPTracker]

Is there a sign or something posted there? Kind of ridiculous to expect everyone to know.

I posted pictures of them in an earlier Trip Report

 

[kingdom-tele]

it has been skied all year, mostly because of the attitude like oldsnowboarder, and they bitched about the GMC fencing it and trying to persuade people to hike in, people couldn't even wait a year, but it makes sense, there really aren't any other good open woods to ski in the basin

I think awf has it right, its an individual decision, f the man or give 1 line( now a trail) a break to see what happens

there are now formal signs at all major entry points into the basin to try and educate people on the land usage

 

[knuckledragger]

you guys need to find a tree to hug .. sorry but you act like mountains and trees are permanent or something .. I have heard that in the past over 90% of New England was cleared land... people hated the effieltower initially also...

I agree with ya oldsnowboarder.
I don't hear any of these people whine about the helicopterd flying over the big logging operations up there when they spray their herbacides to kill off all the hard wood trees.
THese guys whine like its virgin forest up there. It is an industrial forest. The big lumber companies have seen to that.
Why can you camp above treeline on all the vulnerable apline flora in the winter with enough snowcover? Because with enough snow you are not hurting a thing. I think that ther was much more damage done by Jay in the first place for cutting the trail out to Big Jay in the first place. They are the ones that caused it all!
Get Over It

 

[knuckledragger]

Look Here
http://www.viewsfromthetop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20628

 

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I agree with ya oldsnowboarder.
I don't hear any of these people whine about the helicopterd flying over the big logging operations up there when they spray their herbacides to kill off all the hard wood trees.
THese guys whine like its virgin forest up there. It is an industrial forest. The big lumber companies have seen to that.
Why can you camp above treeline on all the vulnerable apline flora in the winter with enough snowcover? Because with enough snow you are not hurting a thing. I think that ther was much more damage done by Jay in the first place for cutting the trail out to Big Jay in the first place. They are the ones that caused it all!
Get Over It

This isn't a "tree hugger" issue....:smash:

The land in question is protected. I don't think the point is to prevent further damage (as you say, the snowpack will protect the undergrowth). Instead, I think the effort is more to change the culture that led to the cut in the first place. Raising awareness of the abuse of the backcountry is a good thing. Something had to be done, or the only lesson from the clear cut would have been "do what you want, just don't get caught".