Burke Mountain Swallowed Up By Jay Peak? Is Burke Becoming "Jay Peak East"

[AdironRider]

Lets be real here, if these folks were so good at their jobs, Burke would've been a bit more successful. I realize there are special circumstances in every situation, but Burke isn't exactly the best run or best marketed joint out there. I never like hearing people losing their jobs, but it does make sense in this situation.

 

[DoublePlanker]

I like Burke but I do believe location is a problem at least from Boston or anybody taking 93. In fact I have skied it just once in my 30+ year ski career. But I have skied Cannon Mt more than any other ski area by far. Its so much further than many other ski areas that are bigger and arguably better. It also seems further away from Burlington and Montreal than bigger and better areas.

But perhaps the combo with Jay Peak will draw more business. Fingers crossed as it seems like a good place.

Would love to hit it again if I can tolerate the extra driving past Cannon.

 

[twinplanx]

As to the out of the way comment, that always makes me chuckle because yes it is north, but it is very easy to get to and the drive is really a breeze.

While Burke may be "way up North" it seems to be fairly close to I-91. I have never been there myself, as it does not have the appeal of Jay or Stowe, but have been interested after reading good reviews and trail reports here on AZ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to think there is a chain hotel or two off I-91 at or near the exit for Burke? That would be nifty if some type of joint lift ticket package(Jay&Burke) was available ;-)

 

[thetrailboss]

I like Burke but I do believe location is a problem at least from Boston or anybody taking 93. In fact I have skied it just once in my 30+ year ski career. But I have skied Cannon Mt more than any other ski area by far. Its so much further than many other ski areas that are bigger and arguably better. It also seems further away from Burlington and Montreal than bigger and better areas.

But perhaps the combo with Jay Peak will draw more business. Fingers crossed as it seems like a good place.

Would love to hit it again if I can tolerate the extra driving past Cannon.

That is the misperception. It is only 45 minutes beyond Cannon and most of that is interstate highway. True that one has to pass all the areas on 93....that's the major problem. It is an easier drive from Boston than the Mad River Valley areas and Killington. Heck, it's easier than Sunday River or Sugarloaf. I used to be able to make it from my place in Medford to Burke in about 3 hours.

 

[thetrailboss]

While Burke may be "way up North" it seems to be fairly close to I-91. I have never been there myself, as it does not have the appeal of Jay or Stowe, but have been interested after reading good reviews and trail reports here on AZ. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to think there is a chain hotel or two off I-91 at or near the exit for Burke? That would be nifty if some type of joint lift ticket package(Jay&Burke) was available ;-)

Comfort Inn in St. Jay is the one....it does package deals.

 

[AdironRider]

That is the misperception. It is only 45 minutes beyond Cannon and most of that is interstate highway. True that one has to pass all the areas on 93....that's the major problem. It is an easier drive from Boston than the Mad River Valley areas and Killington. Heck, it's easier than Sunday River or Sugarloaf. I used to be able to make it from my place in Medford to Burke in about 3 hours.

You already kinda mention it, but you gotta admit, there's really zero added value in driving an extra 1.5 hours round trip over Cannon. I really like Burke, it has a lot of good things going for it, but top shelf industry leading employees and ease of access are not its strong points.

 

[Masskier]

Lets be real here, if these folks were so good at their jobs, Burke would've been a bit more successful. I realize there are special circumstances in every situation, but Burke isn't exactly the best run or best marketed joint out there. I never like hearing people losing their jobs, but it does make sense in this situation.

The goal Burke 2000 had since it was formed back in 2000 was simply to keep the place open and operating until such time an owner could be found that had the ability to turn Burke into a self sustaining resort. After the owner failed in the summer of 2000 it was quite the task of picking up the pieces and getting open. That is when Dick A was hired and Ford H came out of retirement to joined Joe and others. On an extremely limited budget not only did they survive and operate but they also created a quality product and experience for their guests. The reason Burke is where it is today is because these individuals and others were successful.

 

[crank]

+1 Massskier.

As far as Burke being out of the way. Yes it is because it sits way off by itself nowhere near the Rt 100 Green Mountain ski way. It is a closer and easier drive for me from CT than say Sugarbush or Stowe but is a bit lacking in conditions and snow. I finally skied Burke last season and enjoyed it, but I have been skiing Jay regularly for years and every multi day trip have considered trying Burke but never did due to much more snow right where I was staying. Yes it is easy to get to and is still out of the way at the same time. Ascutney, IMO, had a similar problem.

Jay has the Montreal crowd and the Jay cloud, without the latter I doubt their skillful marketing would have been anywhere near as successful as it has been.

 

[kingdom-tele]

Its been said for years, if only we could get some industry leading employees everything would be fine, people would flock like the salmon of capistrano to Burke, the most intimidating place to drive to, 7 miles of extreme paved road from the interstate, with bridge crossings no less.

looking forward to seeing the fleet of leased trucks siting idly by with Q-Burke logos, heads gotta roll, even in a renaissance

 

[Steve@jpr]

Greetings all. Obviously can't get into the wherefore and why re: employee moves for any number of different, good reasons. Suffice to say that we have already and will continue to make decisions that we feel are in the best interest of the resort and its performance. PR pablum aside, that's about all I can say on it.

sw

Yeah, it looks like they eliminated the mountain operations folks and are either going to put Jay guys down there or have other folks at Jay do it I guess.....

Paging Steve@JPR to get us some info.

 

[crank]

I flocking love grilled salmon.

 

[halfpintvt]

It sounds like they are trying to re-brand the mountain and don't want any of the faces associated with the old "product" around.
New motto: Burke Mountain, Rebrand, rebuild, repeat!

 

[AdironRider]

The goal Burke 2000 had since it was formed back in 2000 was simply to keep the place open and operating until such time an owner could be found that had the ability to turn Burke into a self sustaining resort. After the owner failed in the summer of 2000 it was quite the task of picking up the pieces and getting open. That is when Dick A was hired and Ford H came out of retirement to joined Joe and others. On an extremely limited budget not only did they survive and operate but they also created a quality product and experience for their guests. The reason Burke is where it is today is because these individuals and others were successful.

Every resort has budget limitations. Every resort has operational challenges. There was nothing completely unique to Burke that couldn't be overcome. Jay is even more remote yet still was vastly more successful. Hint, it wasn't the snow.

 

[crank]

Every resort has budget limitations. Every resort has operational challenges. There was nothing completely unique to Burke that couldn't be overcome. Jay is even more remote yet still was vastly more successful. Hint, it wasn't the snow.

Actually it was and is.

 

[twinplanx]

Every resort has budget limitations. Every resort has operational challenges. There was nothing completely unique to Burke that couldn't be overcome. Jay is even more remote yet still was vastly more successful. Hint, it wasn't the snow.

I'm sure the vast majority of Jay Peaks visitors from Montreal would not considered it to be "even more remote"

 

[AdironRider]

Actually it was and is.

Oh really? How quickly people forget skier visit totals from just 5 or so years ago. Pre EB5 cash.

And Burke is not that different from Jay in terms of the Montreal market.

 

[Sick Bird Rider]

And Burke is not that different from Jay in terms of the Montreal market.

You are obviously not from Montreal or anywhere west of there. Under two hours VS 2.5 hours? Jay VS Burke? Kind of a no-brainer.

 

[deadheadskier]

Oh really? How quickly people forget skier visit totals from just 5 or so years ago. Pre EB5 cash.

And Burke is not that different from Jay in terms of the Montreal market.

Burke has struggled to break 100K skier visits a season forever. While I wish I had easy data to pull up, I first started skiing Jay in the mid-90s and I bet they were exceeding 250K even back then. While clearly not as busy it is today, Jay has been well more than twice as busy (probably close to 4 times actually) as Burke for decades.

Jay's proximity to Montreal and Quebec City compared to Burke, plus 100+ inches more snow and 50+% more terrain is a huge advantage.
You've had people from South of Burke in this thread state they haven't seen the value in driving 45 minutes past Cannon to ski there. I bet the number from the North that don't see the value in driving past Jay (or Bromont, Sutton, Orford Owl's Head) is even greater.

Without the investment they are currently experiencing, Burke couldn't have been all that much more successful than what they were even if they had Lee Iacocca handling their marketing during lean ownership years.

 

[fbrissette]

I'm sure the vast majority of Jay Peaks visitors from Montreal would not considered it to be "even more remote"

Until recently, Jay Peak was not even on the map for most Montrealers. Jay would only get the hardcore skiers who knew the real strengths of the mountain. As much as we all liked the old Jay, it was not that great of a mountain for families and the recreational skier. Mont St-Sauveur used to somewhat market Jay Peak but after it was sold out most recreational skiers forgot about Jay Peak.

Jay Peak is now back on the Montreal map big time because they marketed the shit out of it. And mostly, they marketed the waterpark to families, and, as far as I can tell, with tremendous success.

Burke ? My guess would be that 95%+ of the Montreal skiers do NOT know it even exists, much less where it is located.

Burke and Jay (to a lesser extent) are seen as remote areas and the challenge is to convince Quebec skiers that they are worth the hassle to cross the borders and drive on smaller roads to get there. Especially when you have the mammoth Mont-Tremblant which is closer to most.

Jay Peak has done a wonderful job to market itself as a fantastic alternative for family and the recreational skier (where I think most of the money is), but I don't think they can do that with Burke. From Montreal, there are several better alternatives in Vermont. I doubt QBurke will market Burke to the Montreal crowd, but if they do, they have a lot of work ahead of them.

 

[dlague]

I have been reading many posts comparing (in some sense) Burke to Cannon, Sugarbush, Stowe and even Jay Peak. First and for most, Sugarbush and Stowe are much bigger and more expensive to ski at. Cannon on the other hand, if you are coming from the south is nearly twice the size of Burke and about the same price to ski at while Jay Peak coming from the North is nearly three times the size and price wise nearly the same cost as Burke.

Travel wise, from the 89 split off the 93 in NH, Burke is closer and easier to get to then Sugarbush and Stowe. Burke is seven miles off the 91. However, that being said on your way there one would drive by plenty of NH ski destinations therefore considering driving costs distance and lift ticket cost then there are a lot of easy choices.

All the above are based on full ticket pricing. We often ski Burke on our way home from skiing Jay Peak. Burke has NEK Sundays for $25 (last year) which made it a no brainer to check them out. In addition, Ride and Ski has a tour stop there with a Saturday 2 fer. Burke is a fun mountain to ski and we have skied it for years. There are other resorts along the way - but I NEVER pay full price, so the others are not an option. Finding deals for Loon, Waterville Valley or Cannon are nearly impossible!

Jay Peak in my opinion is worth the extra half an hour drive past Burke. Jay Peak even though they are marketing heavily in Canada still is a favorite of mine and just skis awesome especially during the month of February where it feels unmatched. We ski all over the place as seen by my signature therefore no one resort is truly considered home, but Jay Peak will be the closest thing since I grew up skiing there. Burke used to be the second option for us. It will be interesting to see what happens this season, hopefully NEK Sunday is still there and Ride and Ski continues having it as a tour stop. We shall see what the new management will do! Since Ride and Ski works with Jay Peak my guess is it will remain!

In closure Burke will not be for all, you have to play in the glades there, charge the runs and relax once and while on a gentle cruiser and with an open mind you may just like it!