Call me crazy

[ski_resort_observer]

After looking over the Colorado ski report I don't see much of a reason to want to fly out there right now. Many resorts are opening 11/9-11/22. A-Basin and Loveland report 18" of base with just a couple of trails open between them. Breck planned on opening this weekend but postponed it till 11/9 due to lack of snow.

So if your upset with kmart's perceived late opening, as many are, or the other resorts in the east, have fun in the Rockies. For those that keep harping that kmart should open earlier needs to wake up and smell the roses and check the themometer.

 

[MadPadraic]

I'm rather happy that SR is pushing for an early opening day. The point is that they are showing commitment.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Frankly, SRO is right at the moment. We've had two week and a half... not more than an inch or two natural. And while the nights have been great for snowmaking (sub 20 degrees), highs have been pushing 55 (and sunny) almost every day. The forecast is looking more promising starting the end of next week. I'd be patient and wait for some better conditions rather than paying to come out right now.

 

[deadheadskier]

Frankly, SRO is right at the moment. We've had two week and a half... not more than an inch or two natural. And while the nights have been great for snowmaking (sub 20 degrees), highs have been pushing 55 (and sunny) almost every day. The forecast is looking more promising starting the end of next week. I'd be patient and wait for some better conditions rather than paying to come out right now.

I'm curious about the snowmaking ability out there. I know most all resorts cover far less of a percentage of their terrain with snowmaking. I'm sure it's for two reasons; 1 and most important a lack of need due to more natural, less rain events and higher terrain that preserves the snowpack and 2, the sheer acreage that would need to be covered. Obviously, much larger areas.

...but, when it comes to actual snowmaking, I can't imagine the resorts out west have much in terms of snowmaking resevoirs. Water is so scarce out there, I'd imagine a lack of natural at the start of the season is a BIG cause for concern; not that I ever recall it being a major problem.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

I'm curious about the snowmaking ability out there. I know most all resorts cover far less of a percentage of their terrain with snowmaking. I'm sure it's for two reasons; 1 and most important a lack of need due to more natural, less rain events and higher terrain that preserves the snowpack and 2, the sheer acreage that would need to be covered. Obviously, much larger areas.

...but, when it comes to actual snowmaking, I can't imagine the resorts out west have much in terms of snowmaking resevoirs. Water is so scarce out there, I'd imagine a lack of natural at the start of the season is a BIG cause for concern; not that I ever recall it being a major problem.

Like anywhere else, most ski areas have their own retention ponds and reservoirs.

As far as drawing from the watershed, it's a matter of water rights. In Colorado, water is a commodity for which you must have rights to in order to use. In a case of over-appropriation, senior (older) water rights always take presidence. What the areas that make snow have done is purchased old water rights from farms, industrial users, etc. who no longer need their allocated amount of water. The ski areas often end up with senior water rights, because they actively seek purchase of the oldest rights they can find.

Areas are allocated a certain amount of consumption (typically in acre feet), and it is based on the size of the land (of the water right) and amount of natural precipitation that falls on that land. For example, a piece of land that receives an annual average of 50 acre feet of water (in precip) can use 50 acre feet of water. That's usually how the rights are set up initially.

Given this, one would think it would make sense for a ski area to appropriate new water rights (based on land area and precip). However, it comes down to the issue of seniority in rights.

Also, the rights are based on drawing from a certain water source. However, if a ski area had water rights to draw from Dillon Reservoir, it could draw out of the Snake River, for example, because the Snake ultimately ends up in the Dillon Reservoir.

Something else to consider is the actual snowmaking consumptive use. At the end of the season, approximately 78% of the water that was drawn for snowmaking is returned to the watershed (22% is lost to sublimation, evaporation, and evapotranspiration).

This all leads to a discussion of environmental impact as well; i.e. point source contamination, minimum stream flow, etc. But that's a topic for another day

 

[snoseek]

It's not like Colorado is known for super frequent heavy snow. Similar to northern vt. I think but with better retention to little R@!n events in the winter, good stuff won't get started for a while now. I'm hoping for a good winter for all.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

It's not like Colorado is known for super frequent heavy snow. Similar to northern vt. I think but with better retention to little R@!n events in the winter, good stuff won't get started for a while now. I'm hoping for a good winter for all.

Very true. Most of the areas here don't average much more than Sugarbush, Stowe, MRG, Smuggs, or Jay. They just retain it better.

 

[Marc]

Can't believe I'm the first one here for this but....


SRO, you're crazy.




Man, you guys are lousy at following instructions.

 

[bvibert]

Can't believe I'm the first one here for this but....


SRO, you're crazy.




Man, you guys are lousy at following instructions.

I wanted to, every time I read the title I say to SRO 'you're crazy', in my head. But then his post makes too much sense I can't bring myself to do it. Thanks for stepping up to the plate Marc!

 

[Marc]

I am the king of nonsensical.

 

[Marc]

Better yet .. Takes one to know one ...

No argument from me, I just want SRO to know he brought this hijack fully upon himself.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Marc....you da man! LMAO

One thought before I leave my place in Maine to get back to the homeland is you have to also consider the size of the resorts out west. If, for example, Breck had the same snowmaking system as SR it wouldn't cover a large percentage of their terrain. Conversly, my son sent me a few pics and it looks like the higher terrain has plently of cover but the lower slopes are as brown as a baby's diaper.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

.

Also, the rights are based on drawing from a certain water source. However, if a ski area had water rights to draw from Dillon Reservoir, it could draw out of the Snake River, for example, because the Snake ultimately ends up in the Dillon Reservoir.

Ahhh BMM, methinks your skipping your geography class and posting here. :wink: The Snake River, which I lived next to and floated for many years in JH doesn't go anywhere near Colorado. It starts heading west a few miles south of JH, thru Idaho, remember Eva Kneivels infamous jump over the Snake in Idaho, ok, your dad probably remembers it, then dumps into the Columbia River which flows out into the Pacific between Oregon and Wahington.

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Ahhh BMM, methinks your skipping your geography class and posting here. :wink: The Snake River, which I lived next to and floated for many years in JH doesn't go anywhere near Colorado. It starts heading west a few miles south of JH, thru Idaho, remember Eva Kneivels infamous jump over the Snake in Idaho, ok, your dad probably remembers it, then dumps into the Columbia River which flows out into the Pacific between Oregon and Wahington.

Actually, SRO... different Snake River. The (Colorado) Snake River flows right past Keystone and directly into Dillon Reservoir. The North Fork and South Fork Rivers flow into the snake. North Fork is pure, South Fork is polluted. Spent a whole snowmaking class talking about it.

Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_River_(Colorado)

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Actually, SRO... different Snake River. The (Colorado) Snake River flows right past Keystone and directly into Dillon Reservoir. The North Fork and South Fork Rivers flow into the snake. North Fork is pure, South Fork is polluted. Spent a whole snowmaking class talking about it.

Here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_River_(Colorado)

Hmmmm.....Didn't know that there was a Colorado imposter of the same name. Course, a check of the map before I posted would have been wise, especially knowing you personally and all. Thanks for the info and the link. I'll have to rethink whether there should be another Snake River or not tho. :wink:

I hope you get a chance to see the other Snake River up north. You and your dad should meet up and float it, you'll love it. It's also in the frontyard of a pretty cool ski hill. For 23 years I photographed this river. Here are a couple of pics. Wow, I think I just hijacked my own thread....kinda crazy. :lol:

 

[andyzee]

Give me your number

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Hmmmm.....Didn't know that there was a Colorado imposter of the same name. Course, a check of the map before I posted would have been wise, especially knowing you personally and all. Thanks for the info and the link. I'll have to rethink whether there should be another Snake River or not tho. :wink:

I hope you get a chance to see the other Snake River up north. You and your dad should meet up and float it, you'll love it. It's also in the frontyard of a pretty cool ski hill. For 23 years I photographed this river. Here are a couple of pics. Wow, I think I just hijacked my own thread....kinda crazy. :lol:

SRO, you're crazy. :lol:

Yeah, sounds like that would make a nice trip sometime. Of course, dragging dad away from work could be interesting. You know how busy he is, and how busy he's going to be for a while!!!

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Give me your number

:lol: I stared at that post for at least 30 seconds before I figured it out. Guess I'm a little slow tonight :lol:

 

[BushMogulMaster]

Wow, that's a beautiful pic. Definitely looks worth a trip!

 

[andyzee]

:lol: I stared at that post for at least 30 seconds before I figured it out. Guess I'm a little slow tonight :lol:

Understandable, you were up late last night :lol: