Cannon Mountain...thoughts

[bigbob]

Plus this councillor may have part ownership of Waterville Valley: http://www.nh.gov/council/district3/index.html

 

[AdironRider]

Let's explore this. What would really change at Cannon under a lease (that hasn't changed already)? And there are a lot of private resorts that are very pro freedom and heritage of skiers (Jay, Bush, Smuggs, etc), even more so than Cannon. The Meullers scare me, though. But on the flip side, Okemo has a few established bump runs. I mean, hell, Cannon friggin grooms Paulie's now!

While I havent been a passholder for 4 years now at Cannon, I have a tough time believing that Cannon is offering a similar product to the Okemo, Snow, Sunapees etc.

Now a similar offering to Jay or the Bush now? I can see the comparisons to Jay, but the Bush seemed to be more of the destination type place the last couple times I was there with the condos etc theyve built at the base. Jay seems to be going this route as well.

On snow product? Maybe Cannon is there already, but I have a tough time believing they are giving the larger private resorts in NE a run for their money either in this regard.

If it went private I see a large investment in a complete overhaul of the snowmaking system. They have it pretty good with allllll that water right at the base, but I seem to recall the pipe/guns/etc being pretty old and dated when I was a passholder, and havent seen or heard much in the way of upgrades there.

Cannon, under private ownership, could be the gem of the Northeast in terms of pure skiing product with a commitment to snowmaking like some of the big dogs.

 

[threecy]

Cannon, under private ownership, could be the gem of the Northeast in terms of pure skiing product with a commitment to snowmaking like some of the big dogs.

Just to be clear, the proposal would be for Cannon to be privately operated, not privately owned.

 

[Puck it]

Why would they right now with it turning a profit? They could get a higher lease price, but Lynch will never do this. Look what he isndoing do the Mueller's at Sunapee.

 

[tjf67]

Just to be clear, the proposal would be for Cannon to be privately operated, not privately owned.

Hey, how r those cuts you made skiing? Its that time of the year. Did they blow out yet? The dacks are going down faster than a whore at a Navy port.

 

[riverc0il]

While I havent been a passholder for 4 years now at Cannon, I have a tough time believing that Cannon is offering a similar product to the Okemo, Snow, Sunapees etc.

Now a similar offering to Jay or the Bush now? I can see the comparisons to Jay, but the Bush seemed to be more of the destination type place the last couple times I was there with the condos etc theyve built at the base. Jay seems to be going this route as well.

I never made any such comparisons regarding the product. My comparisons to Jay, Bush, etc. were in regards to the spirit of the operations. Not many other places in the country offer the type of snow making and grooming of the Meullers and Mount Snow. I'd still compare Cannon a superior mountain to them all but their improvements in snow making and grooming are not in the same league as the big players in the man made categories.

 

[threecy]

Why would they right now with it turning a profit?

If you look at the past half century of media coverage, it's a similar model - in the good snow years, Cannon is a 'moneymaker'...when fickle New England winters return, it quickly builds up losses. It's not nearly as hard to show a 'profit' at a ski area that doesn't have private sector debt or real estate taxes.

They could get a higher lease price, but Lynch will never do this. Look what he isndoing do the Mueller's at Sunapee.

Lynch has never had as little power as he will have from 2011 to 2013.

Hey, how r those cuts you made skiing? Its that time of the year. Did they blow out yet? The dacks are going down faster than a whore at a Navy port.

?

 

[hrstrat57]

I'm not sure I understand the lift ticket comment. Cannon's walk up rate was $67 this season.

Ooops quick post meant to type $80+:dunce:

.

 

[AdironRider]

Just to be clear, the proposal would be for Cannon to be privately operated, not privately owned.

Yeah just mistyped ... whatever. When a decades long lease is in question, there really isnt much difference.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

would hate to see Cannon turned into the way most resorts are now..

What way is that? It's got lifts, lodges, a tram, wide trails, groomed to death, the interstate (which most don't have)? Trying to figure out what you mean, maybe you mean culture? of course you can go to Stowe, Sugarbush, Sugarloaf, Saddleback, Jay, Whiteface, Killington, etc and find a through and through skiing/local culture.

 

[thetrailboss]

I saw this on a truck at Bretton Woods a couple weeks ago...kind of weird seeing he was at Bretton Woods:

 

[riverc0il]

Ummmm... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???

 

[Johnskiismore]

I saw this on a truck at Bretton Woods a couple weeks ago...kind of weird seeing he was at Bretton Woods:

That is friggin great!

 

[ski_resort_observer]

I think he is also the one and along with Lynch that is not allowing the Sunapee expansion. It never makes it out of the executive council.

While Gov Lynch was against Sunapee's expansion it was the local community that was dead set against.the land swap so IMHO it was a good thing it didn't happen.

 

[threecy]

While Gov Lynch was against Sunapee's expansion it was the local community that was dead set against.the land swap

Had family in the area whilst that was all going down...the local community was definitely *not* all against it. Many welcomed the new jobs, tax revenue, and potential increases in property value.

 

[St. Bear]

I think most of you are thinking too much like skiiers.

According to my contact in the Statehouse, Cannon is viewed as unprofitable, not modern, not a friendly ski destination for families, and a massive hole in the state park system.

They're not concerned with what the quality of ski will be like after they lease it out, or if there will be more snowmaking or groomed trails.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Had family in the area whilst that was all going down...the local community was definitely *not* all against it. Many welcomed the new jobs, tax revenue, and potential increases in property value.

Many didn't want the increased traffic and increased property taxes, which were already pretty high. The Town of Goshen voted down the expansion. My best friend who has been a builder in Newbury for 40 years was all for it but when I worked with him on his projects many people I talked to wanted it to stay the same size. Many locals felt that they had lost access when it went from your standard state park to a private lease. Building a bunch of condos will increase traffic but won't add very many jobs.

Like most other resort developements, those who will benefit financially are for it, those that don't are against it. This time, the latter won out.

If they voted to go for a private lease, I wonder if the Muellers will be interested. Personally, I don't see how someone could make any money unless you expand the real estate at the bottom of the Mitt and seemlessly connect the two ski hills. That's going to take a bunch of capital up front. Is nearby Loon or WV profitable? Is there some financial benefits to leasing from the state of NH vs normal private ownership?

 

[thetrailboss]

Ummmm... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???

Yeah I know! :lol: I wanted to remind the guy that he was skiing at BRETTON WOODS! :lol:

 

[St. Bear]

Personally, I don't see how someone could make any money unless you expand the real estate at the bottom of the Mitt and seemlessly connect the two ski hills. That's going to take a bunch of capital up front.

There's a proposal in the State house to put in condos.

 

[deadheadskier]

I think most of you are thinking too much like skiiers.

According to my contact in the Statehouse, Cannon is viewed as unprofitable, not modern, not a friendly ski destination for families, and a massive hole in the state park system.

They're not concerned with what the quality of ski will be like after they lease it out, or if there will be more snowmaking or groomed trails.

I guess I'd like to see the true numbers over the past 5 years. Your contact says Cannon is a money pit. Sikskier says it's been profitable.

I've always been emphatically against the lease as a 'skier'. The deals at Cannon for state residents are far better than those at Sunapee.

However, I guess I can't make a true informed opinion without seeing the balance sheets.