Cannon Mountain...thoughts

[Cannonball]

The folks I know who have been turned around and/or who reported the no hiking signs are respected figures in the hiking community - it's not made up. Ask the Cannon GM the official policy if you think this is inaccurate.

If they are getting turned away while all of the rest of us seem to have no problems, I guess that would make them the Disrespected Members of the Hiking Community. Good band name....

 

[threecy]

Respected figures in the hiking community? Geez you are stretching things here. What makes someone a respected member of the hiking community exactly? Do they have perfect walking form or something? Ive hiked every 4000 footer in NH and all of the High Peaks in the ADK and don't consider myself a respected member of the hiking community. Get off your high horse. You contantly think youre better than everyone else so your opinion must be right.

You seem like such a pleasant person - I look forward to meeting you on the trails sometime.

This is the second year you've gone on and on about how messed up things are with Cannon. Hate to break it to you, but you seem to be the only one who cares.

Absolutely. I'm the only person who reads these forums who would like to see Cannon leased. I'm also the only person in the state who would like to see Cannon leased.

 

[threecy]

Please revisit Business 101. Hell even Arithmetic.

I'm curious about your business knowledge. Explain to us why ski schools bring in some of the highest margins of any unit at a ski area.

 

[Puck it]

Use one much?

 

[deadheadskier]

I'm curious about your business knowledge. Explain to us why ski schools bring in some of the highest margins of any unit at a ski area.

jeez

maybe because instructors are only paid when they teach and one hour privates cost as much as college tuition credits?

All I'm saying is you're trying to add pieces to the pie.

10 pieces in a Pie
Crotched gets 3 pieces
State Run Sunapee gets 3 pieces
Temple gets 2 pieces
King Ridge gets 2 pieces

If a privately run Sunapee gets 6 pieces, guess what? The nelsap areas get less. Hence BOGUS argument

 

[bobbutts]

:argue:



Concord Monitor Editorial (Don't Lease)

In 2008-09 and 2009-10, when visits to New Hampshire resorts fell by about 3 percent overall, Cannon posted double-digit gains.

It's extremely unlikely that a private company could match - much less beat - the results produced by Cannon's focused and capable management team.

 

[riverc0il]

In the past 8 months I've been at Cannon well over 100 days. In the past 20 years I've been there hundreds and hundreds of times. I have never seen a sign that says that. I have hiked all aspects of Cannon (including the ski trails) during winter, spring, summer, and fall. I have skied Cannon before and after the lifts were spinning. I have walked past Cannon ski area employees and park maintenance crews while doing all of this.

I can't say that your "good authority" is definitely wrong.....but it sure seems it.

threecy is correct, now that he has amended his statement to "in theory". There are signs posted at the top of the tram stating that down hiking on the ski trails in prohibited. That is factual. Though as a frequent turn earner, as noted before, I have actually talked to Cannon Ops staff before/after skinning and all was good. I suspect they look the other way during the ski season but are more gung ho during tram season. They probably don't want out of shape people taking the tram up and hurting themselves by down hiking. Down hiking ski trails sucks balls any ways.

 

[riverc0il]

Guys, I said it before and I'll say it again... just because you don't agree with threecy doesn't mean he doesn't have good facts. I know it is hard to take anything he presents as factual because he doesn't back down and does not concede points of merit to the opposing view point. But your only doing the same to him that you are accusing him of doing to you when you just deny everything he puts forth as information backing up his perspective.

 

[Puck it]

threecy is correct, now that he has amended his statement to "in theory". There are signs posted at the top of the tram stating that down hiking on the ski trails in prohibited. That is factual. Though as a frequent turn earner, as noted before, I have actually talked to Cannon Ops staff before/after skinning and all was good. I suspect they look the other way during the ski season but are more gung ho during tram season. They probably don't want out of shape people taking the tram up and hurting themselves by down hiking. Down hiking ski trails sucks balls any ways.

I hike the ski trails at Sunapee quite a bit. Going up is more of a task then down hiking. But it depends on the trail, too. I bet following the road is easy, which is Upper Ravine down to Gremilin.

 

[deadheadskier]

Guys, I said it before and I'll say it again... just because you don't agree with threecy doesn't mean he doesn't have good facts. I know it is hard to take anything he presents as factual because he doesn't back down and does not concede points of merit to the opposing view point. But your only doing the same to him that you are accusing him of doing to you when you just deny everything he puts forth as information backing up his perspective.

I disagree with this statement. When it came to the financials, I full admitted he was right and I was wrong.

I've got no problem admitting when I'm wrong, despite how opinionated I come across on a message forum.

threecy on the other hand.............100% politician. Only uses the facts that backs up his opinions, neglects the ones that don't and does not answer questions directly if he feels that doing so will weaken his position.

 

[AdironRider]

You seem like such a pleasant person - I look forward to meeting you on the trails sometime.


Absolutely. I'm the only person who reads these forums who would like to see Cannon leased. I'm also the only person in the state who would like to see Cannon leased.

I find it interesting that noone is chiming in backing you up on this one. I wouldnt want to meet you on the trails either threecy, or should I say rocket21.

 

[Cannonball]

Guys, I said it before and I'll say it again... just because you don't agree with threecy doesn't mean he doesn't have good facts. I know it is hard to take anything he presents as factual because he doesn't back down and does not concede points of merit to the opposing view point. But your only doing the same to him that you are accusing him of doing to you when you just deny everything he puts forth as information backing up his perspective.

Just because he uses the word "fact" a lot doesn't mean he has, or provides, good facts. I don't feel like re-reading 40 pages. But if I recall, I'm the only one who actually provided some actual published facts and figures, with links to others. Some of us cherry-picked from those facts to support one side. Threecy cherry-picked from them to create an interpretation for his side. But overall I'd say he's heavy on opinion and light on facts.

 

[threecy]

maybe because instructors are only paid when they teach and one hour privates cost as much as college tuition credits?

So you're saying ski school should be a highly profitable venture for ski areas?

I find it interesting that noone is chiming in backing you up on this one. I wouldnt want to meet you on the trails either threecy, or should I say rocket21.

It's surprising, considering how pleasant you've been to me here, that others wouldn't want to join in on the fun.

In 2008-09 and 2009-10, when visits to New Hampshire resorts fell by about 3 percent overall, Cannon posted double-digit gains.

Factually incorrect. Cannon Mountain Total Attendence (ski area only...figures used when pricing liability insurance) for the years cited:
2009-2010: 103,387
2008-2009: 102,582
2007-2008: 103,885

They did, however, have a significant jump in attendence for 2010-2011, though they also recorded 55% more snowfall than average. FY11 has not been closed or audited yet, though.

 

[jack97]

Private sector ski area competing against private sector ski area = competition
Government skia area competing against private sector ski area = unfair competition

fair or unfair ==> relative to the beholder

I can easily argue food stamps, social security, Medicare and health care are unfair to certain sections of the population. Yet they exist to benefit the groups of people that need them.

So if I argue for the sake of arguing...... given how Cannon is presently operating, it is benefiting the groups of skiers that can not afford to ski at places like Loon and BW. Maximizing it for the the highest revenue does not garantee affordable lift tickets. It has nothing to do with fairness but of ensuring lower cost to the average Joe.

 

[AdironRider]

So you're saying ski school should be a highly profitable venture for ski areas?


It's surprising, considering how pleasant you've been to me here, that others wouldn't want to join in on the fun.


Factually incorrect. Cannon Mountain Total Attendence (ski area only...figures used when pricing liability insurance) for the years cited:
2009-2010: 103,387
2008-2009: 102,582
2007-2008: 103,885

They did, however, have a significant jump in attendence for 2010-2011, though they also recorded 55% more snowfall than average. FY11 has not been closed or audited yet, though.

Whatever dude, Cannon is more than just skier visits, we already covered this like 30 pages ago. And go back and look, initially I wasnt for or against a lease, but after hearing all your hogwash, you've done a good job of swaying me highly towards not leasing the place. I was the closest you had to anyone being pro-lease. Just don't turn this into another Ossipee and screw everyone over.

 

[threecy]

So if I argue for the sake of arguing...... given how Cannon is presently operating, it is benefiting the groups of skiers that can not afford to ski at places like Loon and BW.

The two biggest slopeside 'resort' type of areas are priced above Cannon:
2010-2011:
Bretton Woods $76, $68 midweek
Cannon $67, $67 midweek
Loon $76, $76 midweek

The others:
2010-2011:
Attitash: $70, $63 midweek
Cannon $67, $67 midweek
Waterville: $69, $69 midweek
Wildcat $70, $63 midweek

 

[threecy]

Just don't turn this into another Ossipee and screw everyone over.

Who did I 'screw over' in Ossipee?

 

[Puck it]

Spill it, why do you have an ax to grind against the state and the state park system?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

 

[threecy]

Spill it, why do you have an ax to grind against the state and the state park system?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

Concord is in bad financial shape and the state shouldn't be in the ski business.

 

[AdironRider]

Who did I 'screw over' in Ossipee?

Do I need to draw a map out for you to figure it out? Maybe mark the trail along the way.