Cannon Mountain...thoughts

[riverc0il]

- Small ski areas all over the state will come to life as the oppressive thumb of a state-run area is lifted

Uh oh, but Cannon will do MORE skier visits leased to a private business with better business acumen. Leasing publicly owned Cannon out might actually put more ski areas under! Is it possible that Cannon being poorly run actually resulted in fewer ski areas going under? Note that Tenney went under when J.D. came on board as GM and started running the ski area like a business....

:razz:

:beer:

 

[Cannonball]

Uh oh, but Cannon will do MORE skier visits leased to a private business with better business acumen. Leasing publicly owned Cannon out might actually put more ski areas under! Is it possible that Cannon being poorly run actually resulted in fewer ski areas going under? Note that Tenney went under when J.D. came on board as GM and started running the ski area like a business....

:razz:

:beer:

DOH! you're right!!

But wait, what about Threecy's evil government triangle theory?

 

[deadheadskier]

Uh oh, but Cannon will do MORE skier visits leased to a private business with better business acumen. Leasing publicly owned Cannon out might actually put more ski areas under! Is it possible that Cannon being poorly run actually resulted in fewer ski areas going under? Note that Tenney went under when J.D. came on board as GM and started running the ski area like a business....

:razz:

:beer:

impossible according to threecy. A publicly managed, lower priced, less frequently visited, poorly run Cannon is much more devastating to private ski businesses than a highly popular privately run operation.

 

[threecy]

It's certainly not a done deal, but today's vote is a big step toward the lease.

I believe it was Senator Morse who mentioned on the floor that they intend to build upon the Sunapee lease experience and try to get all parties together as they move forward with putting together the lease agreement. Finding an operator does not appear to be an issue.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

Still don't get why a private company would invest in this place? If they can't add any bells or whistles, what can they do (other then go under) to make more people want to go there?

The new management group will have to........

Pay taxes, pay a lease, be forced most likely to have a certain number of NH residence tickets, raise ticket prices and not be able to develope any property. This would all lead to fewer skier visits right? So why would anyone want to take this on? Can they build a hotel at the base? What can they do that the state isn't already doing? Sorry this sounds like a loser to me. I am guessing this will stay state controled as nobody will step forward unless some property is available for further developement.

 

[deadheadskier]

I believe threecy knows which operator(s) are interested. Saving it up for an "I told you so"

 

[Northernflight]

The only way I can see Cannon being an asset to any company without completely changing its character is if the operator has resorts in the area and uses it to boast a multi-mountain pass, which would most likely cost more than its worth to do. An Attitash, Wildcat, Cannon, Crotched Pass would be pretty sweet.......

 

[MadPadraic]

Still don't get why a private company would invest in this place? If they can't add any bells or whistles, what can they do (other then go under) to make more people want to go there?

The new management group will have to........

Pay taxes, pay a lease, be forced most likely to have a certain number of NH residence tickets, raise ticket prices and not be able to develope any property. This would all lead to fewer skier visits right? So why would anyone want to take this on? Can they build a hotel at the base? What can they do that the state isn't already doing? Sorry this sounds like a loser to me. I am guessing this will stay state controled as nobody will step forward unless some property is available for further developement.

They can advertise more and raise prices. That alone will drive a lot of revenue. Also, as NorthernFlight mentioned, it can be used to really enhance the value of a multi-mountain season pass. Think how happy people around here would be if Jay (for example) and Cannon were on the same pass? One destination and one day trip...

 

[threecy]

Firstly, I am not privy the operators interested in leasing Cannon Mountain.

Secondly, there is certainly room for improvement without raising prices.

For instance, FY00-FY09, Cannon's ski school *lost* money in 5 out of 10 years, for a total of -$305,000.

In other words, for every hypothetical retail group lesson of 10 people and 1 instructor at Cannon, the ski area has $350 in revenue and $385 in expenses. Amazing.

 

[Puck it]

The lessee will have to pay for both the lease and the tram up keep for the state to use in the summer. That will definitely raise the price of a ticket. This seems like it will a CF of a lease. I can not see it being a good business desicion without combining all of the attractions.

 

[FridayHiker]

Finding an operator does not appear to be an issue.

Would Executive Councelor Christopher Sununu (Waterville CEO) be a likely bidder, or would he have a conflict of interest?

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

They can advertise more and raise prices. That alone will drive a lot of revenue. Also, as NorthernFlight mentioned, it can be used to really enhance the value of a multi-mountain season pass. Think how happy people around here would be if Jay (for example) and Cannon were on the same pass? One destination and one day trip...

What is advertising going to do? Other then locals, the people of NH who all know Cannon exists, you have the Boston market, which already knows Cannon exists and either go there now or already to choose to go to WV, Loon, etc who will go there? And as far as raising prices, won't that drive people away? I am not saying it won't work, I guess I just don't get the appeal of the place if prices go up?

 

[threecy]

Would Executive Councelor Christopher Sununu (Waterville CEO) be a likely bidder, or would he have a conflict of interest?

My guess is that if he were to bid on it, he would recuse himself from the vote.

 

[Puck it]

Would Executive Councelor Christopher Sununu (Waterville CEO) be a likely bidder, or would he have a conflict of interest?

Not a bad thought, but his team just took on the the big burden of WV. Does he have the cash flow to do this. too?

 

[riverc0il]

For instance, FY00-FY09, Cannon's ski school *lost* money in 5 out of 10 years, for a total of -$305,000.

That is certainly stunning considering how much lessons cost.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Man,I go away for a few days and then read this crap about my Senate passing this backdoor bill?I'm furious with my elected officials.If this goes through it will feel to me like the day the Old Man fell.Shit lets just dump the whole jewel of the State park system into private hands since the old guy is not looking over us anymore.It doesn't take long for people to forget history does it.Franconia Notch used to be all private until the state purchased it to preserve it for all of its residents.It looks like were headed back the other way.
I still don't see how leasing Cannon would be attractive to anybody given all the negative numbers threecy keeps throwing out there.They will have way more expenses the moment a deal is signed.How can the numbers work here?

 

[jack97]

Franconia Notch used to be all private until the state purchased it to preserve it for all of its residents.It looks like were headed back the other way.

You have to follow the money trail.... some of the proponents for privatization are local business people who have a monetary interest. From past newspaper articles, they have stated that they have more to gain if Cannon was operated to maximizes its revenues.

I still don't see how leasing Cannon would be attractive to anybody given all the negative numbers threecy keeps throwing out there.They will have way more expenses the moment a deal is signed.How can the numbers work here?

From my pov, JD has been doing a great job and under his watch has outperformed the Sunapee lease. Below is an interesting link, its the minutes from a Advisory Commission meeting.

http://nhparks.state.nh.us/uploads/pdf/CMACminutes111609.pdf

Here's some highlights (in blue) of JD's initiatives.

Mittersill Terrain Area will be opened, marketed and managed as a backcountry terrain area for the 09/10 winter season. Shuttle service to be offered from base of Mittersill to Notchview Lodge on weekends & holidays. Terrain adds 86 acres (50%) to Cannon’s existing terrain. Believed to unprecedented at such a scale in the East.

A ten-year discussion as to working toward a race/training/camp trail connection of Skylight, Upper and Lower Hardscrabble, and Turnpike has picked up momentum lately. The project would require ample cut and fill maneuvers on the trails in question, and probably an under/over bridge to ease traffic and improve safety. The project is estimated at $500K. The project would offer a better and safer full-length GS racing and training facility (lending itself to many more Championship-level USSA events), another full-length skiing trail for the general public (easing and spreading mid-mtn traffic), and an off-training camp venue for Cannon/FSC to host camps.
The interest has been sparked lately by a citizens’ group with strong ski industry and US Ski Team ties. Serious financial backing has been mentioned, and a closed-door meeting has been scheduled on Monday, November 23rd at Cannon to discuss the feasibility of the project and a potential launch of a fundraising effort if it’s deemed feasible.


The irony and shame to all of this is that a private company will have to make Mittersill a Loon clone and tame the rest of the mtn just to get the visit count high. Thus the potential for further uniqueness of Cannon will be lost. Some times, government initiatives are needed to break the status quo of how private companies operate or to provide alternatives to the consumer.

 

[threecy]

You have to follow the money trail.... some of the proponents for privatization are local business people who have a monetary interest.

How does Senator Morse, from Salem, have any sort of monetary interest in this?

under his watch has outperformed the Sunapee lease.

The numbers presented showing Cannon as 'profitable for 4 years' are questionable to say the least...this was cited on the State Senate floor Wednesday.

 

[threecy]

I still don't see how leasing Cannon would be attractive to anybody given all the negative numbers threecy keeps throwing out there.They will have way more expenses the moment a deal is signed.How can the numbers work here?

For instance, I think a private operator can figure out a way to get the ski school to at least break even. It operated at a 10% loss from FY00-FY09.

Also during that time, Cannon paid ski school employees over a quarter of a million dollars in benefits.

 

[FridayHiker]

For instance, I think a private operator can figure out a way to get the ski school to at least break even. It operated at a 10% loss from FY00-FY09.

Also during that time, Cannon paid ski school employees over a quarter of a million dollars in benefits.

Threecy, in light of management changes being fairly recent at Cannon, I'd be much more interested in what the profit/loss figures are for the past four years, not since 2000. Can you direct me to those figures?

Also, I know quite a few of the ski instructors, and beyond getting a ski pass, they don't get "benefits" (e.g. health insurance or retirement or whatever). What sort of "benefits" are you speaking about, and how do they compare to what ski instructors get at other mountains?