Cannon Mountain...thoughts

[MadPadraic]

I wonder what a private operator would do with spring skiing? Cannon went just as long as Loon this year, but could have gone longer. Sunapee closed a week earlier.

 

[UVSHTSTRM]

keep buying documents off of Concord. It doesn't change the big picture for me.

NH State budget is 10.2 Billion dollars. 10.2 Billion.

yet, your so passionate about 600K in revenue a year IF Cannon matches Sunapee's lease

What is that 600K in the grand scheme of things for the state?

Not even SIX ONE THOUSANDTHS of a percent of the state budget. SIX ONE THOUSANDTHS of a percent

It's a freaking joke that our State Senators are taking more than a coffee break in discussing how to add SIX ONE THOUSANDTHS of one percent to the bottom line.

I've been called out for being a jerk for my character assassination of you instead of focusing on the merits of the lease argument. I can handle being called a jerk for that. I hate political bullshit, which is all this Cannon lease discussion is. It's a freaking joke that our Senators are spending any time at all discussing it. They all should be fired for even discussing something that amounts to six one thousandths of a percent of the budget. If this were a family budget, this is literally discussing how to save 4.8 sheets a toilet paper a year.

4.8 sheets of toilet paper a year is what you're going to war for Threecy. 4.8 sheets of toilet paper a year. Think about it.

While this could be a small amount of change in the grand scheme of things, couldn't this also be the difference between keeping a few state troopers from being laid off? a few teachers from being laid off?, etc? On top of that it's not like the place is being shuttered and everyone laid off. I find it to be a better alternative then actually cutting jobs in one spot to get $600g's so you can fund other positions for another part of the government, no? This is completely hypothetical and if it were put to a statewide vote I really am not sure what way I would vote, both sides have very valid arguments. I guess my greater concern, which I have stated before is, how or better yet who would want to take on Cannon Mountain from a private perspective? From what I have gathered it is a financial loser now without having pay taxes, a lease fee, etc. I would be curious to see if the leasees would be allowed to add a hotel, extra bars, housing properties, etc.

 

[deadheadskier]

there's no right answer

threecy is right, I'm right, you're right. No way to prove one belief is better than an other.

that's why we are on page 75 of the thread :lol:

 

[threecy]

While this could be a small amount of change in the grand scheme of things, couldn't this also be the difference between keeping a few state troopers from being laid off? a few teachers from being laid off?, etc? On top of that it's not like the place is being shuttered and everyone laid off.

If you look at how much Cannon has cost us over the past decade, and how much they're expected to ask for in the next 5-6 years, it's a pretty large sum - a $6.7M+ cost to the state over the past decade (above and beyond Cannon operating revenues) and a projected $9.5M+ cost to the state over the next 3 bienniums (assuming Cannon doesn't have a single bad snow year).

The Senate Finance Committee Chairman said on the floor that the state cannot afford the future spending requests.

Considering the state budget will be cut by 11%, now more than ever we cannot afford to keep funding a ski area.

I guess my greater concern, which I have stated before is, how or better yet who would want to take on Cannon Mountain from a private perspective? From what I have gathered it is a financial loser now without having pay taxes, a lease fee, etc. I would be curious to see if the leasees would be allowed to add a hotel, extra bars, housing properties, etc.

Firstly, I don't think you'll ever see an real estate development with Cannon (aside from the already-built Mittersill complex). The opponents to the lease have long been using this as a scare tactic, when they absolutely know the ski area is landlocked (the Sunapee debate was over expanding the ski area onto privately held, undeveloped property).

Secondly, private operators spend their own money, not OPM (other people's money). I tend to go back to the $2.6M Mittersill lift - even the non-state funded portion could have significant improved Cannon's snowmaking (which, as far as the spending records I have show, hasn't been significantly expanded since the last average snow years, in which Cannon was deep in the red). There are other things too - such as not having the state government allegedly pay a seasonal ski area employee $37,000 in benefits. Or, perhaps, running a ski school at a normal industry high margin, rather than an annual loss.

 

[bobbutts]

I wonder what a private operator would do with spring skiing? Cannon went just as long as Loon this year, but could have gone longer. Sunapee closed a week earlier.

Sunapee has been good at keeping things open when snow allows in spring the last few years. They extended for extra weekends a few years back when we had a bunch of snow.

Remember their summit is 2600', they are not too far north, and it's mostly low angle. Not exactly a spring mecca, they do well with what they have imo.

 

[Puck it]

Sunapee has been good at keeping things open when snow allows in spring the last few years. They extended for extra weekends a few years back when we had a bunch of snow.

Remember their summit is 2600', they are not too far north, and it's mostly low angle. Not exactly a spring mecca, they do well with what they have imo.

Would the private operator open early. They have the infrastructure in place all ready to compete with K-ton and SR. It would be interesting if they would.

 

[deadheadskier]

They definitely have the elevation and upper mountain lift to be an early player. As good of a set up as anywhere really. Do they have the right kind of snowmaking guns? I though some worked better in warmer temps than others, but I no very little about snowmaking technology.

 

[Puck it]

They definitely have the elevation and upper mountain lift to be an early player. As good of a set up as anywhere really. Do they have the right kind of snowmaking guns? I though some worked better in warmer temps than others, but I no very little about snowmaking technology.

They do not have the latest tech for sure. That would be a necessary investment for a private operator and one hindrance for opening early.

 

[witch hobble]

This thread has legs. I thought it might die off after the lease proposal was removed.

Alright, so in the interest of making this last all summer, lets make a list of our own personal, value added ideas that could be "written into the lease"!!!!

Do I hear a Nov. 1st opening? Weather permitting of course.

First weekend of May closing? Sounds possible.

WHat else?

 

[Puck it]

This thread has legs. I thought it might die off after the lease proposal was removed.

Alright, so in the interest of making this last all summer, lets make a list of our own personal, value added ideas that could be "written into the lease"!!!!

Do I hear a Nov. 1st opening? Weather permitting of course.

First weekend of May closing? Sounds possible.

WHat else?

Keep the liberal look away policy on runs.

 

[deadheadskier]

$30 NH resident Sunday Afternoon special

 

[threecy]

Do they have the right kind of snowmaking guns? I though some worked better in warmer temps than others, but I no very little about snowmaking technology.

Their snowmaking system is antiquated and, as far as I can tell, is no better equipped to deal with a bad winter than the last time they had a bad winter (and lost lots of money).

They're preparing to request $4M from State Taxpayers, as well as probably a few million dollars more in debt from the Cannon Capital Account, in the next few years, to fund a new snowmaking system.

 

[Nick]

Why they allow hang gliders and not hikers has been asked of JD?

Do they allow paragliders as well? Hmmm... I might have to head out there

I actually completely forgot about that. I think it's an advanced site since the launch is really restricted for PG's.

 

[Northernflight]

As far as early season skiing goes, how well would the Canonball handle a large line? It seems like there would be no place to put a good number of people waiting for the lift? I would love to see Cannon open earl yer, they do tend to get open at a reasonable time but that would be pretty sweet.

 

[bigbob]

As far as early season skiing goes, how well would the Canonball handle a large line? It seems like there would be no place to put a good number of people waiting for the lift? I would love to see Cannon open earl yer, they do tend to get open at a reasonable time but that would be pretty sweet.

Proably better than the top of the triple at Sunday River!

 

[Puck it]

Proably better than the top of the triple at Sunday River!

And no worse then the Glade chair at K-ton.

 

[Puck it]

They also could have stayed opened to the last week of April possibly this year with just the upper mountain.

 

[SIKSKIER]

Do I hear a Nov. 1st opening? Weather permitting of course.
First weekend of May closing? Sounds possible.

In the interest of the last few posts,it should be noted that the STATE opened Cannon on Oct 31st 1 year and also closed in May not too long after.I have the tickets somewhere.

 

[Puck it]

In the interest of the last few posts,it should be noted that the STATE opened Cannon on Oct 31st 1 year and also closed in May not too long after.I have the tickets somewhere.

What years were those? I do not remember them in recent history.

 

[MadPadraic]

In the interest of the last few posts,it should be noted that the STATE opened Cannon on Oct 31st 1 year and also closed in May not too long after.I have the tickets somewhere.

Is it October yet is it? Darn it...

Maybe the lease could have a newly installed glacier written in as a clause?