Chair falls off lift at Camelback

[faceplant]

pics of chair ...

Chair Falls from Camelback’s Sullivan Express

A chair fell from the Sullivan Express at Camelback Resort in Pennsylvania today along with three passengers who were riding in it. Pictures posted to social media show a significant patrol respons…

liftblog.com

 

[John9]

I am a regular, 1 hour drive and cheap weekday season passes.I have been on those lifts countless times.

When riding, I often look up and ask myself, "is there anyway this thing could fall off?" I thought no way, it's hanging on a steel cable and bolted on. Many times I have been on lifts that came to a sudden stop, and the chair, rises and drops many feet quickly, so much I feel weightless, my stomach in my throat. Never once did I think it possible for a chair to fall off a cable, still don't understand how it happened or could?

 

[ss20]

I am a regular, 1 hour drive and cheap weekday season passes.I have been on those lifts countless times.

When riding, I often look up and ask myself, "is there anyway this thing could fall off?" I thought no way, it's hanging on a steel cable and bolted on. Many times I have been on lifts that came to a sudden stop, and the chair, rises and drops many feet quickly, so much I feel weightless, my stomach in my throat. Never once did I think it possible for a chair to fall off a cable, still don't understand how it happened or could?

You're not quite "bolted" on as you say when on a detachable chairlift... in fact you'd be surprised at how much movement there can be. The grips clamp on the cable, that's one way they attach. But a lot of force too comes from the top on both sides of the grip, running up/down the cable. Take a close look above the cable and you'll see a long "plate" roughly a foot long that sits on top of the cable. That provides lots of friction between the chair and the cable...another device designed to prohibit movement or "slippage" down the line. When a chair bounces up and down this plate is no longer providing friction on the rope and the design is at its weakest point. One of the most notorious detachable lift incidents was the Quicksilver quad at Whistler in the mid 90s. The chair was built by a lift manufacturer Yan, which had innovative, minimalist designs that were unfortunately underdeveloped for their detachable chairs. The key issue was the grip did not apply adequate force on the cable. The lift had an emergency stop which caused the line to bounce up and down. This in turn caused a chair to come lose from the cable, but not fall. When the lift got going again, the affected chair stayed still while other chairs piled up behind, eventually falling to the ground below.

That's why the really quick up/down is a weak point for deatchables. Gravity is supposed to "push" the grip/chair down onto the cable. Shoot the chair up to the sky and you lose that force.

 

[urungus]

That's why the really quick up/down is a weak point for deatchables. Gravity is supposed to "push" the grip/chair down onto the cable. Shoot the chair up to the sky and you lose that force.

In other words, it works all the time, except when you need it to.

 

[crystalmountainskier]

You're not quite "bolted" on as you say when on a detachable chairlift... in fact you'd be surprised at how much movement there can be. The grips clamp on the cable, that's one way they attach. But a lot of force too comes from the top on both sides of the grip, running up/down the cable. Take a close look above the cable and you'll see a long "plate" roughly a foot long that sits on top of the cable. That provides lots of friction between the chair and the cable...another device designed to prohibit movement or "slippage" down the line. When a chair bounces up and down this plate is no longer providing friction on the rope and the design is at its weakest point. One of the most notorious detachable lift incidents was the Quicksilver quad at Whistler in the mid 90s. The chair was built by a lift manufacturer Yan, which had innovative, minimalist designs that were unfortunately underdeveloped for their detachable chairs. The key issue was the grip did not apply adequate force on the cable. The lift had an emergency stop which caused the line to bounce up and down. This in turn caused a chair to come lose from the cable, but not fall. When the lift got going again, the affected chair stayed still while other chairs piled up behind, eventually falling to the ground below.

That's why the really quick up/down is a weak point for deatchables. Gravity is supposed to "push" the grip/chair down onto the cable. Shoot the chair up to the sky and you lose that force.

Huh? The friction plate doesn't even touch the rope. It's only for terminal movement. And modern grips do not rely on gravity for grip force. Stop spreading misinformation.

 

[ss20]

Huh? The friction plate doesn't even touch the rope. It's only for terminal movement. And modern grips do not rely on gravity for grip force. Stop spreading misinformation.

Not the friction plate, the long black piece that rides on the rope and helps the grip travel under depression sheaves. Can't remember the name of it off the top of my head.

 

[crystalmountainskier]

Not the friction plate, the long black piece that rides on the rope and helps the grip travel under depression sheaves. Can't remember the name of it off the top of my head.

View attachment 51059

Needles. They do not provide any clamping force.

 

[Domeskier]

Here's a decent video of a Leitner detaching and reattaching:

 

[Teleskier]

Not the friction plate, the long black piece that rides on the rope and helps the grip travel under depression sheaves. Can't remember the name of it off the top of my head.

View attachment 51059

Sounds like our lives are depending upon the strength of those springs, and friction. What happens with iced cables?

Your post makes me want to stop the sometime urge to swing my legs to enjoy the gentle chair bounce. That negative-G fun lift-off-seat sensation isn't risk-free.

This accident is not helping my already lift adverse and scared non-skiing friends to come join me. I can't say "that never happens." "Hardly ever happens" won't really convince them. Shows once again that proper maintenance vs shortcuts matters for safety (in general, from bridges to lifts).

 

[ss20]

Needles. They do not provide any clamping force.

Correct but they do provide friction along the rope helping prevent slippage. Yes, I understand the grip does most of the work.

 

[kingslug]

Icing on the cables shuts down the lift. Happened at PC 9990 was down for the day. In simplistic terms...if the spring/clamping mechanism fails due to mechanical or even metal fatigue..there's nothing holding you on anymore. You would be surprised at the little parts that hold together the large parts..they are usually the problem. We could speculate forever..only a report will tell..and I doubt we will read it.

 

[ceo]

The needles are only there to provide a ramp for the grip to pass under compression towers. Any friction they provide is purely incidental. The Yan grips did have a friction component in addition to their inadequate clamping mechanism, which is part of why it was vulnerable to slippage on steep inclines. And the PHB gondola grip (as on the old Sugarloaf gondola) worked entirely by gravity.
Fun fact: on fixed-grip lifts, the clamping force also comes from a spring, that is compressed by the big nut at the other end of the grip. (Except those weird Riblet grips that are woven into the cable, of course.)

 

[Teleskier]

The needles are only there to provide a ramp for the grip to pass under compression towers. Any friction they provide is purely incidental. The Yan grips did have a friction component in addition to their inadequate clamping mechanism, which is part of why it was vulnerable to slippage on steep inclines. And the PHB gondola grip (as on the old Sugarloaf gondola) worked entirely by gravity.
Fun fact: on fixed-grip lifts, the clamping force also comes from a spring, that is compressed by the big nut at the other end of the grip. (Except those weird Riblet grips that are woven into the cable, of course.)

This is all very interesting... learning about a topic I always wondered about every time I look up while on a chair... thanks everyone for the tidbits of education.

 

[FBGM]

Or somebody that doesn't know the difference between break and brake.

It’s amazing that’s the only thing I didn’t spell right typing from my phone. Thank Mormon Jesus we have you here to correct those things.

 

[Zermatt]

It’s amazing that’s the only thing I didn’t spell right typing from my phone. Thank Mormon Jesus we have you here to correct those things.

No problem, that's not considered a spelling error though.

 

[FBGM]

No problem, that's not considered a spelling error though.

GrAmmeArr error. Got it.

Back to real shit. Does anyone know if Cammelsack stopped and evaced the entire line after this happened or did they just run it to clear it? (Which would be crazy)

 

[ne_skier]

According to people who were on the lift, it stopped hard for about 20 minutes and proceeded to run at a crawl to unload passengers. I have to assume they had reason to believe it had nothing to do with the tower and was purely an issue with that grip/chair, or else doing such would be reckless. Guess a rope evac would grab the attention of the big bad news anchors which would hurt sales. Thank god we have liftblog and that one random Camelback slander account on Instagram, who to my knowledge was the first to report this (Account is now mysteriously gone...hmm...)

 

[kbroderick]

According to people who were on the lift, it stopped hard for about 20 minutes and proceeded to run at a crawl to unload passengers. I have to assume they had reason to believe it had nothing to do with the tower and was purely an issue with that grip/chair, or else doing such would be reckless. Guess a rope evac would grab the attention of the big bad news anchors which would hurt sales. Thank god we have liftblog and that one random Camelback slander account on Instagram, who to my knowledge was the first to report this (Account is now mysteriously gone...hmm...)

Guessing blind here, but I'd expect there are a also a fair number of mechanical issues that fall into the category of "if we run this dead slow and I stand on the tower in question, I can radio for a stop before things get bad if it starts happening again." PR issues aside, a full lift evac is a lengthy process with a certain amount of inherent risk.

 

[FBGM]

According to people who were on the lift, it stopped hard for about 20 minutes and proceeded to run at a crawl to unload passengers. I have to assume they had reason to believe it had nothing to do with the tower and was purely an issue with that grip/chair, or else doing such would be reckless. Guess a rope evac would grab the attention of the big bad news anchors which would hurt sales. Thank god we have liftblog and that one random Camelback slander account on Instagram, who to my knowledge was the first to report this (Account is now mysteriously gone...hmm...)

Weird that IG account is gone. Id assume they may have been threatened with some sort of copy right/desist notice since the logo and name was so similar. But good luck getting that anywhere. Maybe they just scared them enough. Shame.


If camelback gets their dicks kicked in with some massive lawsuit wonder if they entertain an offer to sell to the Saudi King up the road with that other water park hotel. Heard that dude wanted a ski area

 

[FBGM]

Guessing blind here, but I'd expect there are a also a fair number of mechanical issues that fall into the category of "if we run this dead slow and I stand on the tower in question, I can radio for a stop before things get bad if it starts happening again." PR issues aside, a full lift evac is a lengthy process with a certain amount of inherent risk.

Could evac that lift in under an hour if patrol knows their stuff. It was also like 50 and sunny so no temp issues. No press cares when lifts evac at other places. They could just do the Vail thing and give everyone on lift a voucher for a cookie and hot coco as a sorry.