Climate Choices in the Northeast by UCS

[catskills]

Union of Concerned Scientists have generated some serious reading climate reports for our part of the planet.

http://www.climatechoices.org/ne/resources_ne/nereport.html

Skiing. New York has more ski areas
than any other state in the nation. Combined,
they host an average of 4 million
visitors each year, contributing $1 billion
to the state’s economy and employing
10,000 people.
Warmer winters are projected to
shorten the average ski season, increase
snowmaking requirements, and
drive up operating costs, hurting an
industry that has already contracted in
recent years. Ski areas in western and
southeastern New York are projected to
be at risk of losing viable ski seasons
over the next several decades, even
under the lower-emissions scenario.
Even if New York’s ski operations
increase their snowmaking capacity as
temperatures rise, they may no longer
be viable by late-century if higher
emissions prevail.

------------

The Union of Concerned Scientists is the leading science-based nonprofit working for a healthy environment and a safer world. UCS combines independent scientific research and citizen action to develop innovative, practical solutions and to secure responsible changes in government policy, corporate practices, and consumer choices.

What began as a collaboration between students and faculty members at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1969 is now an alliance of more than 200,000 citizens and scientists. UCS members are people from all walks of life: parents and businesspeople, biologists and physicists, teachers and students. Our achievements over the decades show that thoughtful action based on the best available science can help safeguard our future and the future of our planet.

 

[loafer89]

Not the Catskills or the United States, but still interesting reading from the NSIDC:

Snowless in a warming world, ski resort in French Alps bids adieu

ABONDANCE, France: Muddy slopes, slushy peaks, unused lifts - this town in the French Alps is living out the nightmare of many a ski resort in a century scientists say is doomed to keep getting warmer.
The city council of Abondance - its name a cruel reminder of the generous snowfall it once enjoyed - voted last month 9-6 to shut down the ski station that has been its economic raison d'etre for more than 40 years. The reason: not enough snow.

Abondance is the French Alps' first ski station to fall apparent victim to global warming. It will almost certainly not be the last.
At 930 meters (3,051 feet), this station between Mont Blanc and Lake Leman falls in the altitude range climate scientists say has seen the most dramatic drop in snowfall in recent generations.
The Alps as a whole, which pull in about 70 million tourists every year primarily for winter sports, are "particularly sensitive" to climate change, according to a study last winter by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development

It calls climate change a serious threat to Alpine ski resorts and the regional economies that depend on them. The most recent World Cup ski circuit was badly hit by lack of snow, with several races in the Alps - even at high altitudes - called off.
Last week, a commercial court in Lyon put the Transmontagne company, which operates mid-altitude resorts in France, Switzerland, Italy and Slovenia, under bankruptcy protection for the next six months. Warming weather is seen as a key reason for its financial woes.

Abondance's troubles are alarming towns in the surrounding valleys. Homeowners fear a crash in housing prices. Neighboring La Chappelle-d'Abondance is considering changing its name to dissociate itself from the shutting station.
Abondance Mayor Serge Cettour-Meunier fears that the closure of his station is the start of a troubling trend. "Skiing is again becoming a sport for the rich," since only elite high-altitude resorts will have sufficient snowfall, he said.
The €2.2 million (US$3.03 million) annual economy of his town and its 1,300 residents centers around winter sports. Last year, the lifts suffered a loss of €640,000 (US$882,000).

"The town can no longer pay," he said.
Gerald Giraud, engineer at the Snow Study Center of Meteo-France at Grenoble, predicted Abondance's snowfall woes are likely to worsen.
"The 900-1500 meter range is the one where global warming will pose the greatest problems," he said.
Even taking into account irregular weather cycles, snowfall levels fell 64 centimeters (25.2 inches) on average between 1960 and 2007 across the French Alps, he said.
His center noted a rise in average temperature of 1.5 to 3 degrees C (2.7-3.3 F) over the Alpine ranges since the early 1980s.

The OECD report said warming in the Alps in recent years has been roughly three times the global average.
"Climate model projections show even greater changes in the coming decades, with less snow at low altitudes and receding glaciers and melting permafrost higher up," it said.
For geographic and geological reasons, Germany is likely to suffer the most from climate change, while Switzerland is the least at risk, the report said. Austria and Italy are slightly more sensitive than average, while France has average risk, based on climate studies and projections.

The report studied only the Alps but noted that its implications extend "to other mountain systems which may face similar ... challenges, for example in North America, Australia and New Zealand."
Investors are not ready to write off Alpine ski resorts yet, noting how unpredictable weather-dependent investments are.
"We remain calm, one shouldn't overstate the phenomenon," said Georges Gay-Lancernin, of Credit Agricole de Haute Savoie, one of the chief banks financing France's mountain economy. He said the bank had no "general position about stations at mid or high altitude, but conducts studies on a case-by-case basis."
Nevertheless, small stations are having increasing difficulty finding investors.

Saint-Pierre-de-Chartreuse, at 900 meters (2,952 feet) sought public funding to upgrade one of its lifts. The improved lift, ready for the 2006-2007 season, didn't budge all winter because there was not enough snow.
In Abondance, where snow fell only 20 days last year, town officials have been seeking private buyers for the station for several years. Transmontagne and Remy Loisirs expressed interest, but never followed through, the mayor said.
The regional council for the Haute Savoie region refused the mayor's request for aid, deeming the station no longer profitable.
The news of the closure has hit hard in this town that has revolved around the ski station since 1964. Sporting good stores and restaurants specializing in local cheese dominate the town's main street.

 

[JohnGD33]

When is the next Ice age coming?

 

[dmc]

Popycock.... Hogwash...

Or so I've been told.. over and over again..

 

[Greg]

Popycock.... Hogwash...

Or so I've been told.. over and over again..

You forgot "voodoo science"...

 

[dmc]

You forgot "voodoo science"...

Right... Got that one from you.... VOODOO science!!!

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

I believe what our President tells us...until he says global warming is really affected by mankind I'm just gonna keep on heating my house with coal, driving my monsterous V12 extra super heavy duty SUV, snowmobiling in our national parks, and leaving all my lights on...because its good for the economy...and what's good for the economy is good for America.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

I believe what our President tells us...until he says global warming is really affected by mankind I'm just gonna keep on heating my house with coal, driving my monsterous V12 extra super heavy duty SUV, snowmobiling in our national parks, and leaving all my lights on...because its good for the economy...and what's good for the economy is good for America.

Right on, all that is necessay to solve gobal warming is more study and other related foot dragging. Scientist don't know everything.

 

[dmc]

Right on, all that is necessay to solve gobal warming is more study and other related foot dragging. Scientist don't know everything.

There IS NO historical scientific data that "studies" and "foot dragging" cause global warming.. Foot dragging and studies are only from the last century.

I refuse to listen to such nonsense...

 

[bigbog]

..not much difference.......

I believe what our President tells us...until he says global warming is really affected by mankind I'm just gonna keep on heating my house with coal, driving my monsterous V12 extra super heavy duty SUV, snowmobiling in our national parks, and leaving all my lights on...because its good for the economy...and what's good for the economy is good for America.

Driving a Hummer isn't that much difference from the jack-rabbit starts...to get to the next light in 3.2sec by most 20-30-somethings I see Everywhere......but hey, Dubya' was the right guy at the right time!;-);-);-);-);-)

 

[Greg]

......but hey, Dubya' was the right guy at the right time!;-);-);-);-);-)

No politics, please.

 

[catskills]

Money talks. Will banks be scared off and stop lending mortgage money foe high priced housing near ski areas? Will people stop investing in homes and condos near ski areas because of the weather change? :flag: Maybe now is a good time to buy. :beer:

Talk is cheap. Spend some money. Buy a ski area condo.

 

[koreshot]

French ski industry suffering... This is awesome! No more foam core skis from Rossi and Salomon!

Glass half full, baby!

 

[koreshot]

The situation is kinda sad... lots of ski resorts suffering. Many of them have recently been voicing concerns that human caused global warming is killing them.

Yet I don't see too many resorts doing anything about it. More than ever, they seem to be putting in faster quads that burn more energy, heated gondolas, ridiculously fancy hotels and base lodges, ski lifts that take people from the town to the base (instead of making them walk), upgrading their villages and towns with more creature comforts, restaurants, bars, etc.. etc.. sure seems like all of this causes even more polution - a bit hypocritical me thinks.

Sure there are some exceptions, like the wind powered resorts out west, but the vast majority of resorts hasn't taken the initiative to set higher standards for energy efficiency for themselves so why shouldn't their customers drive their H2s? How about setting an example people. Instead of blowing 10 million dollars on fancy hotels and faster lifts, spend it on clean energy, efficiency and all that - while preserving the old school, vintage skiing experience.

Of course this rant/suggestion is completely emotional and not at all rational - I haven't done the financial analysis and many resorts might be forced to upgrade their lifts and facilities just to stay in business so....

 

[klrskiah]

The situation is kinda sad... lots of ski resorts suffering. Many of them have recently been voicing concerns that human caused global warming is killing them.

Yet I don't see too many resorts doing anything about it. More than ever, they seem to be putting in faster quads that burn more energy, heated gondolas, ridiculously fancy hotels and base lodges, ski lifts that take people from the town to the base (instead of making them walk), upgrading their villages and towns with more creature comforts, restaurants, bars, etc.. etc.. sure seems like all of this causes even more polution - a bit hypocritical me thinks.

Sure there are some exceptions, like the wind powered resorts out west, but the vast majority of resorts hasn't taken the initiative to set higher standards for energy efficiency for themselves so why shouldn't their customers drive their H2s? How about setting an example people. Instead of blowing 10 million dollars on fancy hotels and faster lifts, spend it on clean energy, efficiency and all that - while preserving the old school, vintage skiing experience.

Of course this rant/suggestion is completely emotional and not at all rational - I haven't done the financial analysis and many resorts might be forced to upgrade their lifts and facilities just to stay in business so....

i know that Sunday river, Sugarloaf, and Shawnee Peak all buy 100% green energy credits and claim to be completely "wind powered" more places should seriously consider doing the same at least to offset some of their own impact. For an industry that relies on snow and cold weather for its survival there seems to be a lack of urgency to change their own ways.

personally i am sick of seeing money and resources spent on cutting wider trails, bulldozing the montainsides into flat nothingness and building wider roads so we can all drive 80 right up to our paved parking spot. it actually made me mad when i found out that saddleback had paved their access road.. and now route 4 is becoming a scar in the forest that is probably visable from the space station. ughhhhh:evil:

 

[snoseek]

The situation is kinda sad... lots of ski resorts suffering. Many of them have recently been voicing concerns that human caused global warming is killing them.

Yet I don't see too many resorts doing anything about it. More than ever, they seem to be putting in faster quads that burn more energy, heated gondolas, ridiculously fancy hotels and base lodges, ski lifts that take people from the town to the base (instead of making them walk), upgrading their villages and towns with more creature comforts, restaurants, bars, etc.. etc.. sure seems like all of this causes even more polution - a bit hypocritical me thinks.

Sure there are some exceptions, like the wind powered resorts out west, but the vast majority of resorts hasn't taken the initiative to set higher standards for energy efficiency for themselves so why shouldn't their customers drive their H2s? How about setting an example people. Instead of blowing 10 million dollars on fancy hotels and faster lifts, spend it on clean energy, efficiency and all that - while preserving the old school, vintage skiing experience.

Of course this rant/suggestion is completely emotional and not at all rational - I haven't done the financial analysis and many resorts might be forced to upgrade their lifts and facilities just to stay in business so....

your rant makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[Zand]

I'll jump in the "Human Caused Global Warming is Hogwash" group.

Maybe it has some effect, but it's mainly because the earth changes. Boo hoo. It's not like this is the first time this has ever happened. Those "scientists" should look up historical data before they go blaming humans.

The majority of ski areas get most of their business between Christmas and late March anyway, shortened seasons would only bring the season closer to those dates instead of November to May.

I wonder that they'll blame everything on when the Earth cools down again in a couple hundred years.

 

[koreshot]

Those "scientists" should look up historical data before they go blaming humans.

Maybe you are being sarcastic... don't know. But if you are not, the "scientists" have actually done a huge amount of historical data gathering. They could have screwed the data gathering and/or analysis up royally, but they did gather quite a bit of data. The recent scare about human caused global warming is supposedly based on thosands of ice core samples and other data that lets the scientists look up to 600,000 years back.

I'm not saying they are right and I am not saying they are wrong. Don't really want another global warming argument popping up. I am just informing you that the global warming scientists are claiming to have gone way way way back in historical data and in the more than half a million years they claim they have never seen a cycle like we are seeing now.

Anyway, so how about that David Beckham....

 

[riverc0il]

Maybe it has some effect, but it's mainly because the earth changes. Boo hoo. It's not like this is the first time this has ever happened. Those "scientists" should look up historical data before they go blaming humans.

You really should look up some facts before suggesting that scientists are not using historical data. In a matter of fact, the use of historical data is what makes the warming issue so striking. Yes, the Earth has been proven to have natural warming and cooling periods. What makes this warming period so striking is just how fast and intensive the warming is happening and how well correlated it is to CO2 emissions (which, by the way, is also correlated historically with other warming/cooling periods, just not as dramatic because, surprise, not as much CO pumped into the atmosphere so quickly back then). The biggest issue is not the warming (IMO) but rather the rate at which the warming is occurring which is faster than ecology and nature is used to handling such changes which generally would not be so noticeable in a life time let alone a generation.

What does it mean for skiing? Well, it sure as heck means bad news for many European areas. Jury is still out on most United States ski areas. We probably won't see substantial enough change that it will truly effect our skiing habits during our prime years, so who cares, right? Party on.... or something.

 

[koreshot]

Most people that I have met that don't believe in global warming also know virtually nothing about how the scientists arrived at that conclusion. The data collected and analyzed, the changes observed, etc...

There is nothing wrong with poking holes in the research and argueing a counter point; because everyone is entitled to their oppinion and its not like the scientists haven't been wrong about something else before; but it is frustrating when people say "global warming" is BS without first reading up on the research that lead the scientific community to the conclusion that global warming exists.

And by reading up, I don't mean watching Fox News and listening to that one crazy canadian scientist that works for the Calgary Community College as a Geology 101 professor saying he has undenyable proof global warming is a hoax.