Climate Choices in the Northeast by UCS

[bobbutts]

I'm just glad there was no sarcasm in this thread!

 

[ctenidae]

I'm just glad there was no sarcasm in this thread!

Global Warming. Now with 15% less sarcasm!

 

[koreshot]

Statistically speaking, Steve clearly hasn't read anything else I've posted on this subject. That graph was intended to inject a little levity into a topic that often goes down a political path.

I don't refute global warming- it is both a natural function of the Earth's normal climate cycles, and is most likely exacerbated this time around by human activity. The way I see it, arguing over whether it's happening is about as useless as a one-legged man in an ass kicking contest. Arguing over why it's happening is marginally less useless, only because it's important to the question of whether we can do anything to stop it. As for arguing over whether there's anything we can do to stop it, I think we're too far along the cycle to make any real difference at this point, practically speaking. Unless we cut human-centered emmissions of greenhouse gasses to zero by tomorrow, I think the current change cycle has enough momentum to carry us beyond several potential tipping points (melting glaciers and non-forming pack ice are two bits of evidence here).

This is not to say we shouldn't be cutting emmissions. Anything we can do to mitigate the magnitude of our impact on the cycle can only be good in the long run.

The major thing we should be working on, and no one wants to consider this because of the "what if it doesn't happen" risk, is what to do when the Sahara expands into a belt circling the globe from the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn? What do we do when the Great Plains of the US become ice covered in the north and desert in the south? What do we do wth the massive numbers of people dislodged from the coasts and tropical regions? Some massive "Day After Tomorow" scenario is unlikely, but possible over a longer term. And even if it doesn't happen, the answers to those questions can go a long way towards solving problems that already exist, with African droughts, SE Asian tsunamis, exploding populations, disease epidemics, and a whole host of other real issues that no one wants to tackle because they're "over there."

Hopefully that is a sufficiently logical platform to earn me entry into this discussion despite the Piratical handicap. And I didn't even have to use any statistics.

:beer:

This thread has offically gone way over my head...

 

[JimG.]

The major thing we should be working on, and no one wants to consider this because of the "what if it doesn't happen" risk, is what to do when the Sahara expands into a belt circling the globe from the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn? What do we do when the Great Plains of the US become ice covered in the north and desert in the south? What do we do wth the massive numbers of people dislodged from the coasts and tropical regions? Some massive "Day After Tomorow" scenario is unlikely, but possible over a longer term. And even if it doesn't happen, the answers to those questions can go a long way towards solving problems that already exist, with African droughts, SE Asian tsunamis, exploding populations, disease epidemics, and a whole host of other real issues that no one wants to tackle because they're "over there."

Hopefully that is a sufficiently logical platform to earn me entry into this discussion despite the Piratical handicap. And I didn't even have to use any statistics.

:beer:

Damned pirates!

You have touched on one end game scenario here. Many people look to changes in lifestyle or technology to reduce consumption. Whoever said that's the way it will play out? Another real quick way to reduce consumption is to reduce the consumers.

Ever read any of the science of population crashes? And that can happen in a multitude of ways. The increase in global temperature may spawn an epidemic of Black Plague proportions. Or worse. That's the scary stuff people should be made aware of. Instead of the special effects drama the media creates like a huge wave washing over NYC that then freezes solid. Nice for the movies, but we live here in reality.

 

[ctenidae]

Damned pirates!

You have touched on one end game scenario here. Many people look to changes in lifestyle or technology to reduce consumption. Whoever said that's the way it will play out? Another real quick way to reduce consumption is to reduce the consumers.

Ever read any of the science of population crashes?

Malthus was right.

Best. Bumpersticker. Ever.

 

[koreshot]

The increase in global temperature may spawn an epidemic of Black Plague proportions. Or worse.

interesting point. I remember reading something in national geographic or one of those "tree hugger, alarmist, factonista" magazines that there are areas in the world that are already experiencing something like this on a small scale. I think it was a type of mosquito that carries a pretty nasty disease that normally gets killed when temperatures fall under 50 degrees. So naturally, evern winter the temps would dip below 50 once or twice, thus controlling their populations. Well, due to global waming, the temps have been staying at or above 50 - thus their numbers, and the numbers that are infected with the disease have gone up dramatically. I think it was somewhere in Asia Pacific, but I really don't know for sure.

Oh wow, its lunch time... gotta run, the Yukon XL needs an oil change.

 

[ctenidae]

Epidemics caused by population growth? Unthinkable!
Except for AIDS, Ebola, Black Death, malaria, sleeping sickness, cholera, typhoid, flu...

 

[JimG.]

interesting point. I remember reading something in national geographic or one of those "tree hugger, alarmist, factonista" magazines that there are areas in the world that are already experiencing something like this on a small scale. I think it was a type of mosquito that carries a pretty nasty disease that normally gets killed when temperatures fall under 50 degrees. So naturally, evern winter the temps would dip below 50 once or twice, thus controlling their populations. Well, due to global waming, the temps have been staying at or above 50 - thus their numbers, and the numbers that are infected with the disease have gone up dramatically. I think it was somewhere in Asia Pacific, but I really don't know for sure.

Oh wow, its lunch time... gotta run, the Yukon XL needs an oil change.

Scary stuff indeed. The worst end game scenario I saw discussed on Discovery lies in the ocean. There is a strain of bacteria that lives in warm ocean climates. The optimal temp for this bacteria is about 70 feet underwater.

So they took a boat out and did a video dive. They could not decend more than 50 feet. Mere exposure to this toxic bacteria is almost instantly fatal. You could see clear water down to 70 feet or so, then a blood red/brown mass that was undulating and roiling in the water. I got the willies just watching.

The theory is that as the oceans warm, this bacteria will move closer to the surface of the water until it is literally belched into the atmosphere. The bacteria don't need to live long outside the water because the sheer mass of the bacteria being emitted will smother most land masses very quickly. Death for most land dwellers will occur hours after the event, mostly by paralysis of the respiratory muscles.

The entire death event (the whole world) is estimated to last a day or 2.

 

[koreshot]

Sounds pretty miserable.

Looks like high end respirators would be a pretty 'hot' business to get into...

 

[JimG.]

Sounds pretty miserable.

Looks like high end respirators would be a pretty 'hot' business to get into...

Heh.

The scary part is that, like alot of unknowns, there is no indication at what point in time these may proliferate or exactly what triggers it. And there's evidence in the fossil record that alot of big extinction events were actually caused by this type of event.

 

[tjf67]

Heh.

The scary part is that, like alot of unknowns, there is no indication at what point in time these may proliferate or exactly what triggers it. And there's evidence in the fossil record that alot of big extinction events were actually caused by this type of event.

BOO!!

 

[bigbog]

.....That graph was intended to inject a little levity into a topic that often goes down a political path......

Unfortunately, for this country.....I think many on both political sides Have made scientific findings/guesses on Global Warming trends into very "political" issues.

Live Free or Die..No New Taxes...
We all live downstream kids.....

 

[JimG.]

BOO!!

Hey, if that happens and you're around, it pretty much sucks for you and everyone/thing else. There's little or nothing you personally can do.

 

[jack97]

Scary stuff indeed. The worst end game scenario I saw discussed on Discovery lies in the ocean. There is a strain of bacteria that lives in warm ocean climates. The optimal temp for this bacteria is about 70 feet underwater.

So they took a boat out and did a video dive. They could not decend more than 50 feet. Mere exposure to this toxic bacteria is almost instantly fatal. You could see clear water down to 70 feet or so, then a blood red/brown mass that was undulating and roiling in the water. I got the willies just watching.

The theory is that as the oceans warm, this bacteria will move closer to the surface of the water until it is literally belched into the atmosphere. The bacteria don't need to live long outside the water because the sheer mass of the bacteria being emitted will smother most land masses very quickly. Death for most land dwellers will occur hours after the event, mostly by paralysis of the respiratory muscles.

The entire death event (the whole world) is estimated to last a day or 2.

I saw an episode from NovaNow (on PBS) on mass extinction just last week, I think I saw the discovery program on comcast on demand. Seems like an interesting multi-science disciplines research problem. Basically, they think warm climate due to the large volcanic activity cause these bacteria to belch out their deadly gas. The link below points to the transcript of the Nova episode.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3318_sciencen.html

 

[JimG.]

I saw an episode from NovaNow (on PBS) on mass extinction just last week, I think I saw the discovery program on comcast on demand. Seems like an interesting multi-science disciplines research problem. Basically, they think warm climate due to the large volcanic activity cause these bacteria to belch out their deadly gas. The link below points to the transcript of the Nova episode.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3318_sciencen.html

That's it.

 

[catskills]

Scary stuff indeed.........The theory is that as the oceans warm, this bacteria will move closer to the surface of the water until it is literally belched into the atmosphere. The bacteria don't need to live long outside the water because the sheer mass of the bacteria being emitted will smother most land masses very quickly. Death for most land dwellers will occur hours after the event, mostly by paralysis of the respiratory muscles.

The entire death event (the whole world) is estimated to last a day or 2.

H'mm so this stuff kills 99% of the human population, very little humans left to drive cars and produce CO2, global warming problem solved. Nature always figures out a way to fix the problem. :???:

 

[jack97]

H'mm so this stuff kills 99% of the human population, very little humans left to drive cars and produce CO2, global warming problem solved. Nature always figures out a way to fix the problem. :???:

It’s not a slam dunk that 99% of the humans will die off, could be more or less…just a lot of estimates. The interesting stuff from all of this is the cause and effect that resulted in this mass extinction 250 million years ago.

Then again, you can adhere to the beliefs of creationism where some believe the fossil records and ice cores do not accurately go back that far in time. You can go through life dumb, fat and happy.

 

[ctenidae]

H'mm so this stuff kills 99% of the human population, very little humans left to drive cars and produce CO2, global warming problem solved. Nature always figures out a way to fix the problem. :???:

I'll agree with that last bit 100%.
Difficulty for us is that nature doesn't give a fig for us or anything else. Whatever it takes to get to equilibrium. In whatever state.

 

[awf170]

This thread needs some fat Al gore pictures.

Edit: It needs this too.

 

[dmc]

This thread needs some fat Al gore pictures.

Can I post a picture of the Karl Rove and Dick Cheney instructing their minions on why Al Gore is wrong in order to protect their own interests now?

It's only fair... :???: