Expansions

[SIKSKIER]

Another point is that most of the expansion to areas of Kicking Horse and Revelstoke were only on paper.

Revelstoke expansion was certainly anything but just on paper.

 

[wtcobb]

"Expansion" at Breck approved - just not skier expansion. Zip lines, bike paths, etc.

http://adventure-journal.com/2015/11/forest-service-okays-breckenridge-expansion/

More resorts are making these types of improvements/expansions instead of strict terrain enhancements to get more bang out of the already existing services year-round. In light of the diminishing ski crowd, shortened snow window, and rising energy costs already mentioned in this thread, it makes sense to get more revenue through other means.

 

[Highway Star]

"Expansion" at Breck approved - just not skier expansion. Zip lines, bike paths, etc.

http://adventure-journal.com/2015/11/forest-service-okays-breckenridge-expansion/

More resorts are making these types of improvements/expansions instead of strict terrain enhancements to get more bang out of the already existing services year-round. In light of the diminishing ski crowd, shortened snow window, and rising energy costs already mentioned in this thread, it makes sense to get more revenue through other means.

In other news, 6-Flags and Disney are looking to get into the ski resort business. They will be the first ski resorts with amusement park rides and no actual skiing.

 

[1Kathleen]

Don't forget about Waterville's Green Peak expansion. Hopefully it's name doesn't mean the trails are all green. After many years of dealing with environmental issues and the U.S. Forest service , and shortly after the Sununu's became major shareholder (hmmm?), the 52 acres expansion was approved. 52 acres, 8 trails with 12 acres of glades serviced by a triple chair. Tree cutting began in May 2015. My guess the trails will be a mix of green and easy blues.


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[MadMadWorld]

Revelstoke expansion was certainly anything but just on paper.

Not sure if that was truly expansion or just part of the original design. It's one of the newer resorts out there. I was referring more to North and Greely Bowl being added.

 

[MadPadraic]

Sunday River could do with some expansion, preferably down the backsides rather than outwards. Also, Breck's Peak 6 expansion is hilarious: the access chair dumps riders out onto a narrow ledge with a double fall line, and entertaining carnage en-souse.

 

[Rowsdower]

Worth pointing out that the youngest East Coast ski area is Whitetail in PA, and it only joined us in 1991.

 

[yeggous]

Worth pointing out that the youngest East Coast ski area is Whitetail in PA, and it only joined us in 1991.

"Only" 24 years old? That is a statement to itself.

This also omits area that were closed for many years before being rebuilt from the ground up. This is what the Balsams wants to be and what Crotched is.


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[Jully]

Sunday River could do with some expansion, preferably down the backsides rather than outwards. Also, Breck's Peak 6 expansion is hilarious: the access chair dumps riders out onto a narrow ledge with a double fall line, and entertaining carnage en-souse.

Last I heard SR was looking out past Jordan for expansion. Sadly haven't heard anything about the backside.

 

[deadheadskier]

What's the appeal of the backside of SR? Pitch?

Wouldn't it be fairly difficult to keep decent coverage on due to exposure?

 

[Newpylong]

Sunday River has enough terrain to cover, even with their massive snowmaking system. I don't see it happening.

 

[Smellytele]

The Crotch should think about open the original part of the Crotch

 

[deadheadskier]

would love to see it. Wonder if they'd get an ROI though

 

[Gforce]

Hate to say it, but I agree. Regulations, lack of capital, and economics are all reasons.

Out here in Utah there are a few projects on the drawing boards, but they are fraught with challenges.

Snowbird wants to expand into Mary Ellen Gulch--which they own a large portion of, spent their own money cleaning up someone else's mining mess, and only realistically want one lift in the basin and to extend Mineral Basin Express downslope a bit. Yet, the Utah County NIMBY crowd (yes, they do exist in that red county) have stalled it again for now.

Alta also wants to expand into Grizzly Gulch and in other areas. Also opposed by the backcountry skiing crowd.

The One Wasatch Project to connect the seven Wasatch resorts--controversial. Mainly over access and land use conflicts.

Only really in the Park City and Ogden areas are places able to move ahead with their plans. Deer Valley has plans to expand down to the bottom of Mayflower. They intend on moving their day base area over there. No real opposition. Lots of real estate in play there.

I doubt that PCMR is going to expand anymore. The only thing folks will probably see are replaced lifts and maybe a few new homes here and there but nothing huge. Their recent connection did not involve much new development--one lift over one major ridgeline. Only controversy, that did not go anywhere, was from the local backcountry crowd upset that they would lose access to that ridge. But let's be honest there was not much terrain in play really.

Nordic Valley--they have big plans, but nobody is really opposed. They are moving ahead slowly.

Powder Mountain--despite the hoopla from a few years back by their inexperienced but new age moneyed owners, the have not done anything really. There are plans for some real estate....high end for their friends.

So out here things are on the drawing boards, but the same issues, more or less.

Exactly. Skier visits are down 5% year over year and snow sports is practically a zero growth business. The East is an entirely different animal than out west due to altitude, climate, expansive land, regulations, etc.. There's basically no meaningful expansions happening in the NE. Small scale Cap Ex limited to snow-making upgrades, cut a new trail, replace an ancient lift, refurb a 1970's ski lodge etc. etc.. nothing exciting, that's about it.

The recent M&A activity with big resort operators and associated capital- the shear numbers/stats of the West's resorts & visits enable expansion, although probably temporary.

Back East ...forgettaboutit.

 

[Jully]

Sunday River has enough terrain to cover, even with their massive snowmaking system. I don't see it happening.

In terms of snowmaking the advent of the low energy guns might change this equation. Skier visits is another story and I don't think it'll happen either sadly.

Unless Otten complete phase 1 of the Balsams and then goes off and creates ASC 2.0 and buys back SR and a dozen other resorts (jk).

 

[ScottySkis]

Bearpen needs to get opened again in the Catskills.

 

[Highway Star]

Exactly. Skier visits are down 5% year over year and snow sports is practically a zero growth business. The East is an entirely different animal than out west due to altitude, climate, expansive land, regulations, etc.. There's basically no meaningful expansions happening in the NE. Small scale Cap Ex limited to snow-making upgrades, cut a new trail, replace an ancient lift, refurb a 1970's ski lodge etc. etc.. nothing exciting, that's about it.

The recent M&A activity with big resort operators and associated capital- the shear numbers/stats of the West's resorts & visits enable expansion, although probably temporary.

Back East ...forgettaboutit.

I'm not so pessimistic. We have the potential for a renaissance of eastern skiing due to low energy snowguns, $40/barrel oil, wide rocker skis, EB-5 investment, online deals and hopefully lower electricity costs.

 

[machski]

In terms of snowmaking the advent of the low energy guns might change this equation. Skier visits is another story and I don't think it'll happen either sadly.

Unless Otten complete phase 1 of the Balsams and then goes off and creates ASC 2.0 and buys back SR and a dozen other resorts (jk).

Not going to happen until they complete the planned (and supposedly begun several seasons ago) water pump capacity increase with a direct new pump line to the western side. The low E guns have left the resort with plenty of air, the water is the low capacity part.

 

[Rowsdower]

What would it take for skiing to become a growing industry again, or would you say this is as big as it gets?

 

[deadheadskier]

A society with a lot more disposable income.