Climate Choices in the Northeast by UCS

[ctenidae]

The way most farming is done these days, veggies are just as bad for the environment as beef.

Well, maybe not just as bad, but not as good as you'd think.

 

[dmc]

The way most farming is done these days, veggies are just as bad for the environment as beef.

Well, maybe not just as bad, but not as good as you'd think.

yup... Fertilizer and pesticide runoff is bad stuff for rivers and oceans...

 

[koreshot]

Yes, much of farming today is pretty devastating to the environment, but its not quite as bad as meat production. Meat production is extremely energy and resource intensive. If everyone in the world ate as much meat as an average american does, by some estimates 80% of all farmable land in the world would have to be dedicated to meat production alone. That is not very sustainable. I believe that being vegetarian, even with all the subpar environmental practices in the agriculture, is a big and positive move in the right direction. Too bad I can't find the self discipline to do it.

 

[snoseek]

The way most farming is done these days, veggies are just as bad for the environment as beef.

Well, maybe not just as bad, but not as good as you'd think.

it doesn't have to be this way. buy locally grown organic veg, meat, dairy, ect... or better yet grow or make your own. don't support chain restaurants, and foodservice that doesn't share this belief. sure, in january you need to ship in tomatoes, but never in august. eat whats available in different seasons as much as posssible (this will save the xtra $$$ it cost for local organic food). shipping kills nutrients and flavor. better yet cook your own food, it's much much better for you and the planet. i think we are already seeing positive results from higher demands.

 

[riverc0il]

I'm buying my respirator now...because all the folks just mentioned and everyone here is facing the same fate when the balance tips and Mother Earth shrugs her shoulders. That's when the poison gas is belched from the ocean and we're all wiped out. It won't matter who thought what or which party you belong to.

Doomsday (for the United States, at least) isn't going to happen while we are alive, so we might as well enjoy the good life while we can!!! Right!!!? :beer::???::blink:

 

[ctenidae]

it doesn't have to be this way. buy locally grown organic veg, meat, dairy, ect... or better yet grow or make your own. don't support chain restaurants, and foodservice that doesn't share this belief. sure, in january you need to ship in tomatoes, but never in august. eat whats available in different seasons as much as posssible (this will save the xtra $$$ it cost for local organic food). shipping kills nutrients and flavor. better yet cook your own food, it's much much better for you and the planet. i think we are already seeing positive results from higher demands.

Agreed.

 

[koreshot]

The way most farming is done these days, veggies are just as bad for the environment as beef.

Well, maybe not just as bad, but not as good as you'd think.

I am guilty of eathing meat, but I have been scaling back big time. I still haven't fully given up meat and probably never will, cause I have no self control. So I am not trying to point fingers at anyone or say I am better than anyone (as some veg like to do). But claiming that meat production isn't that much worse for the earth than veggies is IMO inaccurate.

In terms of energy and environmental impact, meat is nothing more than a "middle man" between calories made on the field and calories that enter your body. It just so happens that this "middle man" keeps 90% of the calories for himself.

If I look at my own body and look at how much food I eat and how much of that food results in actual muscle - it is pretty pathetic. The majority of the calories I eat are used just so that I can survive till the next day. It is the same with raising animals. We are spending huge amounts of money, energy and farm land making environmentally unfriendly feed. Most of that feed goes to just keeping them alive basically. It just doesn't make mathematical sense. Meat production, strictly mathematically speaking, is an inefficient process.

And that doesn't touch on the loads of energy consumption, environmental impact and healthcare costs associated with eating meat - the water consumption, the housing, the slaughter and processing, the waste disposal, the refigeration, the heart attacks and so on.

There is a reason why people in poor countries eat way less meat than people in rich countries do - producing meat is just too expensive and resource consuming. Grain, beans, soy and veggies are good enough substitutes and are much more efficient.

 

[ctenidae]

. Grain, beans, soy and veggies are good enough substitutes and are much more efficient.

Yeah, but they're just not as tasty on the grill.
I'm just saying, veggies shipped in from half way around the world aren't all that good for the environment, either. Or all that good, period.

 

[JimG.]

Stay in... But don't belittle... This is a serious discussion for both sides.. It has serious implications for both sides. This isn't a bad discussion about this as discussions go...

I was just laughing about it.. I'm in Arkansas again this week.. And it's 104 out - car read 125 inside.. I posted this AM in Hunter where it was in the mid-70's.. The end of the week I'll be in San Fran where it's in the 60's.
It's insane... I had no idea how to pack.. If it's cold in San Fran I'll pick up a Giants sweatshirt or maybe I'l pick u a razorback sweatshirt now... Bet they're onsale,..

Stay cool...starting to hear about heat related sickness and death in what is a massive heat wave affecting most of the country. They've had 8 straight days over triple digits down there.

On the flip side, Northeast is cool and pleasant in the 70's and 80's. This morning must have been epic on the East Branch...my oars and fishing rods were calling me as I left for work.

 

[JimG.]

I stopped eating meat for three years... And i put a ton of gas into the air from the diet...

So Jim... Steve Gotts was playing SAX at a gig for the Ulster County Road Workers with me once.. in the food line he asked a local guy where the veggies were...
The guys resonded "Veggies??!?! Thats what my food eats!"

I almost pissed myself laughing...

Steve has been a vegetarian for a while. Although I have seen him eat turkey on Thanksgiving.

I try to keep red meat to a minimum but I would miss chicken and especially fish. But I could do it. I guess I would eat alot of beans. Done that before on my cholesterol lowering diet. Just gotta drink alot of water.

 

[JimG.]

it doesn't have to be this way. buy locally grown organic veg, meat, dairy, ect... or better yet grow or make your own. don't support chain restaurants, and foodservice that doesn't share this belief. sure, in january you need to ship in tomatoes, but never in august. eat whats available in different seasons as much as posssible (this will save the xtra $$$ it cost for local organic food). shipping kills nutrients and flavor. better yet cook your own food, it's much much better for you and the planet. i think we are already seeing positive results from higher demands.

Here you go. The way will be smaller farming co-ops. People will buy locally or grow their own. You can have agriculture without the harmful chemical fertilizers and pesticides.

 

[JimG.]

Doomsday (for the United States, at least) isn't going to happen while we are alive, so we might as well enjoy the good life while we can!!! Right!!!? :beer::???::blink:

I hear you.

Part of what scares me about the environment is that there are tipping points where bad goes to much worse very quickly. I don't think we've seen something like that yet. And we have no idea really when it might happen.

So don't be too sure it won't be in your lifetime. And I have the added whammy of feeling for my kids and their future.

 

[JimG.]

I am guilty of eathing meat, but I have been scaling back big time. I still haven't fully given up meat and probably never will, cause I have no self control. So I am not trying to point fingers at anyone or say I am better than anyone (as some veg like to do). But claiming that meat production isn't that much worse for the earth than veggies is IMO inaccurate.

In terms of energy and environmental impact, meat is nothing more than a "middle man" between calories made on the field and calories that enter your body. It just so happens that this "middle man" keeps 90% of the calories for himself.

If I look at my own body and look at how much food I eat and how much of that food results in actual muscle - it is pretty pathetic. The majority of the calories I eat are used just so that I can survive till the next day. It is the same with raising animals. We are spending huge amounts of money, energy and farm land making environmentally unfriendly feed. Most of that feed goes to just keeping them alive basically. It just doesn't make mathematical sense. Meat production, strictly mathematically speaking, is an inefficient process.

And that doesn't touch on the loads of energy consumption, environmental impact and healthcare costs associated with eating meat - the water consumption, the housing, the slaughter and processing, the waste disposal, the refigeration, the heart attacks and so on.

There is a reason why people in poor countries eat way less meat than people in rich countries do - producing meat is just too expensive and resource consuming. Grain, beans, soy and veggies are good enough substitutes and are much more efficient.

I'm in the industry...my company sells products to the packing house industry. You are spot on in your appraisal. If people knew all the details there would be alot more vegetarians out there.

Here's another fact...for all our wealth, education, technology, medical skill, and health obsessions, the United States is ranked 42nd in the world in life expectancy.

Our eating habits suck.

 

[hammer]

I'm in the industry...my company sells products to the packing house industry. You are spot on in your appraisal. If people knew all the details there would be alot more vegetarians out there.

Here's another fact...for all our wealth, education, technology, medical skill, and health obsessions, the United States is ranked 42nd in the world in life expectancy.

Our eating habits suck.

I think I'll go out and cook myself a Bubba Burger now...:wink:

 

[JimG.]

I think I'll go out and cook myself a Bubba Burger now...:wink:

Those Bubba Burgers are very good!

I like the sweet onion.

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Before you take my rib-eye off my plate let's look at other ways to curb our environmental impact. Or work out some sort of trading program like the carbon polluters do...if you drive a 4cylinder you can eat some meat...got a V8, you'll have to go veggie. Ride a bike to work, you can stay on the Atkins diet. LOL
Seriously though...if each one of us puts in a little extra effort we can have a tremendous impact...recycle as much plastic, paper, glass etc as you can, switch to CFL bulbs, play lester lightbulb at home and work...drive as efficient a vehicle as you can, etc. All it takes is a little extra effort...don't leave the problem for your kids, take some responsibility and initiative.

 

[JimG.]

Before you take my rib-eye off my plate let's look at other ways to curb our environmental impact. Or work out some sort of trading program like the carbon polluters do...if you drive a 4cylinder you can eat some meat...got a V8, you'll have to go veggie. Ride a bike to work, you can stay on the Atkins diet. LOL
Seriously though...if each one of us puts in a little extra effort we can have a tremendous impact...recycle as much plastic, paper, glass etc as you can, switch to CFL bulbs, play lester lightbulb at home and work...drive as efficient a vehicle as you can, etc. All it takes is a little extra effort...don't leave the problem for your kids, take some responsibility and initiative.

Now that's innovative...tie eating to energy consumption. You laugh but these are the types of programs that would actually do some good.

Trying to enforce it would be problematic...can you say food police?

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Now that's innovative...tie eating to energy consumption. You laugh but these are the types of programs that would actually do some good.

Trying to enforce it would be problematic...can you say food police?

I'd be flagged as an excessive methane gas producer...but if you limited me to veggies it'd be even worse...can you say broccoli fart...and if you make me eat beans for my protein instead of meat nobody better light a match within a 1/4 mile radius or we're all going up in a big ball of blue fire.
Enforcement wouldn't be too hard though...do it at the supplier level...can't buy weed at the local Hannafords...flank steak will be next. You'll have to get it on the corner or in a dark alley..."psst, hey buddy...wanna buy some beef jerkey? Its the kind...dude, I'm talking KOBE beef!" Then we'll all have to listen to reports of Lindsay Lohan being busted for posession of filet mignon...

 

[trtaylor]

I'm in the industry...my company sells products to the packing house industry...

I used to be in the industry, but at the other end. Prior to 1997, we had a large (for the east) grain farming and cattle feeding operation in Central New York. :smile:

 

[JimG.]

I'd be flagged as an excessive methane gas producer...but if you limited me to veggies it'd be even worse...can you say broccoli fart...and if you make me eat beans for my protein instead of meat nobody better light a match within a 1/4 mile radius or we're all going up in a big ball of blue fire.
Enforcement wouldn't be too hard though...do it at the supplier level...can't buy weed at the local Hannafords...flank steak will be next. You'll have to get it on the corner or in a dark alley..."psst, hey buddy...wanna buy some beef jerkey? Its the kind...dude, I'm talking KOBE beef!" Then we'll all have to listen to reports of Lindsay Lohan being busted for posession of filet mignon...

You should be a comedy writer.

After eating it a while your digestive system gets used to the veggies and beans; then, you have to worry about regularity because of all the fiber, so you have to drink alot of water.

So, you wind up peeing like a racehorse but that's about it.