Climate Choices in the Northeast by UCS

[tjf67]

At this point i dont believe there is anything that can be done to slow down Global Warming. The US burns the same amount of fossil fuels that we did in the early 70's. We will eventually take the lead to try to slow this but with China and India catching up quickly before they jump on the band wagon the sees are going to blow up.

Over the past 15 years the snow fall totals for whiteface have gone up. If that a result of global warming bring it on. Were all going to die of something

 

[JimG.]

Unfortunatley the 2 have been inseperable since the US backed out of the Kyoto Treaty and Christine Todd Whitman was fired...

I think they've been inseparable for longer than that, probably started with the invention of the car.

I think people just like to argue; it gives them an excuse to not act.

 

[dmc]

I think they've been inseparable for longer than that, probably started with the invention of the car.

I think people just like to argue; it gives them an excuse to not act.

nope....
It became poliical after that.. Now I'd rather discuss abortion or the death penalty over climate change.

 

[JimG.]

nope....
It became poliical after that.. Now I'd rather discuss abortion or the death penalty over climate change.

I'd rather discuss rational solutions to the problem that can be implemented now.

Why does something that affects everyone turn into a clash of philosophy? Because of politics...all that does is make the solution less important than being on the "right" side of the issue.

Argue until it's end game and there 's only one side...dead.

 

[dmc]

Why does something that affects everyone turn into a clash of philosophy? Because of politics...all that does is make the solution less important than being on the "right" side of the issue.

Because politicians need to protect the special interest groups that got them into power...
The best way to f up a debate is to toss in ideals...

On both sides...

 

[JimG.]

Because politicians need to protect the special interest groups that got them into power...
The best way to f up a debate is to toss in ideals...

On both sides...

What you're saying is that it's all about money. Which we all know. And yet we buy into it and foster it by taking sides.

I guess it's going to take a worldwide cataclysm to get some folks to realize just what money really is...paper. Because that's all it's going to be worth when the fall comes.

 

[Greg]

 

[JimG.]

That doesn't help.

All is does is promote the tribe mentality.

 

[Greg]

That doesn't help.

All is does is promote the tribe mentality.

No. It makes a point. The doomsday prognoses are a bit over the top in my opinion. A perfect example was after the unusually busy 2005 hurricane season (Katrina, Rita). Many "experts" predicted 2006 would be as active or worse; perhaps fueled by global warming. In reality, not much in 2006. So far this season? Nada, and we're approaching the peak. Another example was early last season when many skiers here cited global warming as the reason for the crappy early season. This went on until about, oh, MLK day, when the season finally turned around. Not much talk about global warming after that as we all were too busy skiing. I guess my point is; sure take some precautions to reduce energy consumption. That is no doubt a good thing, but the doom and gloom predictions don't strengthen the argument on global warming.

 

[ctenidae]

the doom and gloom predictions don't strengthen the argument on global warming.

"See, we didn't die this year" doesn't do much to weaken the arguement, either. Rampant predictions are silly, and no "respectable" scientists engage in them. NOAA predicted that 2006 "may" have an increased risk of stronger hurricanes (kind of like their prediction that last winter may be above, below, or at average), which the media took hold of. People freaking out about global warming do as much damage to any initiatives to combat it as those who actively oppose any change. In the same vein, while many Sierra Club, Greenpeace, and PETA members are are sober, intelligent, thoughtful people who are truly concerned, it's the nutters chaining themselves to sperm whales that make the papers, and thereby cast all members in the same light. Guilt by association.

There's not much we can do to stop or alter the human effect on climate change, and sooner or later we'll figure that out. There is quite a bit we can do to adjust our responses to it, and sooner or later we'll have to figure that out. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

My suggestions:
Reduce dependence on petroleum- as cliamte change occurs, there will be worldwide instability. Better to be self-sufficient on energy.

Reduce reliance on and utilization of factory farms. these require tremendous resources and are notoriously fragile in the face of wide weather swings. Buy local- the guy with 40 acres and a mule will eb able to adjust to climate change better, and won't be depending on outsourced fertilizers, etc

Increase use of sustainable products, be they energy, building materials, fibers, whatever. Learn to build with locally available products and techniques.

Increase use of locally sourced products. Importing everything from China won't be a good strategy when Los angeles is under water, adn Arizona doesn't have many good ports. We also can't do anything to maintain stability across the globe.

All of these are subject to "Yeah, but"s, but they are, in my opinion, the direction we should be moving. Expensive in the short run, sure, but possibly essential in the long.

 

[JimG.]

No. It makes a point. The doomsday prognoses are a bit over the top in my opinion. A perfect example was after the unusually busy 2005 hurricane season (Katrina, Rita). Many "experts" predicted 2006 would be as active or worse; perhaps fueled by global warming. In reality, not much in 2006. So far this season? Nada, and we're approaching the peak. Another example was early last season when many skiers here cited global warming as the reason for the crappy early season. This went on until about, oh, MLK day, when the season finally turned around. Not much talk about global warming after that as we all were too busy skiing. I guess my point is; sure take some precautions to reduce energy consumption. That is no doubt a good thing, but the doom and gloom predictions don't strengthen the argument on global warming.

People mention gloom and doom and expect it in the next 5 minutes. Nothing happens and they lose interest. It's not a real concern.

What's getting lost in all this is that there are really some folks who are thinking long term and trying to plan for possibilities/probabilities. And there are long term consequences that are real if not immediate that must be addressed.

Sitting back and saying they were wrong about hurricane season last year and thinking we're OK because of it seems short sighted to me.

 

[Greg]

Sitting back and saying they were wrong about hurricane season last year and thinking we're OK because of it seems short sighted to me.

I didn't say that. I was simply making a point and used that as an example.

 

[JimG.]

I didn't say that. I was simply making a point and used that as an example.

OK; I think most of us here realize how inert most people are concerning change. They'll latch onto anything to stay in denial.

So, instead of fanning the pseudo-political flames that I also believe most folks here know is useless, what kind of changes can the well informed person who knows the facts make to improve our situation?

Start small since we have a huge challenge trying to make a group or countrywide effort work.

 

[ctenidae]

So, instead of fanning the pseudo-political flames that I also believe most folks here know is useless, what kind of changes can the well informed person who knows the facts make to improve our situation?

Buy local.
Buy American (though this rubs me wrong in ways that have nothign to do with the environment. For me, other philosophical considerations may override this directive)
Consume less.
Vote more.
Get the cabin in Wyoming stocked up with enough canned goods and ammo to last a lifetime.

 

[JimG.]

Become a vegetarian. I love veggies, but this would be a tough one for me. But it's something I could do and not really suffer much.

More crops and plants mean more CO2 being taken back from the environment and being replaced with oxygen to breathe. Less need for methane producing ruminants like cattle who do little but graze on O2 producers and fart methane gas, another greenhouse gas as bad as CO2.

 

[dmc]

And this is usually what happens...
Somebody has to make fun and belittle an issue I think is important..

It the usual tactic... Just like I'd expect from Karl Rove... Make the opposition look stupid..

 

[Greg]

And this is usually what happens...
Somebody has to make fun and belittle an issue I think is important..

It the usual tactic... Just like I'd expect from Karl Rove... Make the opposition look stupid..

You're right. I know how passionately you feel about this so I shouldn't make light of it. For that, I'm sorry. For the record, chicken little wasn't directed at you specifically or anything you posted in this thread. Nevertheless, I am sorry. I will try to stay out of the global warming discussions from now on.

 

[dmc]

Stay in... But don't belittle... This is a serious discussion for both sides.. It has serious implications for both sides. This isn't a bad discussion about this as discussions go...

I was just laughing about it.. I'm in Arkansas again this week.. And it's 104 out - car read 125 inside.. I posted this AM in Hunter where it was in the mid-70's.. The end of the week I'll be in San Fran where it's in the 60's.
It's insane... I had no idea how to pack.. If it's cold in San Fran I'll pick up a Giants sweatshirt or maybe I'l pick u a razorback sweatshirt now... Bet they're onsale,..

 

[dmc]

Become a vegetarian. I love veggies, but this would be a tough one for me. But it's something I could do and not really suffer much.

More crops and plants mean more CO2 being taken back from the environment and being replaced with oxygen to breathe. Less need for methane producing ruminants like cattle who do little but graze on O2 producers and fart methane gas, another greenhouse gas as bad as CO2.

I stopped eating meat for three years... And i put a ton of gas into the air from the diet...

So Jim... Steve Gotts was playing SAX at a gig for the Ulster County Road Workers with me once.. in the food line he asked a local guy where the veggies were...
The guys resonded "Veggies??!?! Thats what my food eats!"

I almost pissed myself laughing...

 

[Greg]

Stay in... But don't belittle... This is a serious discussion for both sides.. It has serious implications for both sides. This isn't a bad discussion about this as discussions go...

Understood. Carry on.