Counting Trails - Magic does it right!

[billski]

I am really looking forward to Magic this year - they are making a lot of very thoughtful investments, AND re-setting the marketing honesty bar. This is the first time I can remember, when trail count numbers at a resort actually went DOWN. Second, setting the difficulty level UP on several trails is a hard thing to do, but the right thing. I clipped the following from their web page. Congrats Matt and Magic owners, you're doing the right things!

1) Lowering the total trail count from 48 to 40. We removed many of the uppers/middles/lowers as well as some of the named connectors that we feel didn't deserve to be given a distinct name.
2) Changed the name of "Video Blvd" to "Hocus Pocus". Not only was "Hocus Pocus" an original trail name, it will also be the location of the Hocus Pocus terrain park.
3) "Trick" is now a "Blue Diamond". It was a very tough trail to classify within the boundaries of standard system, so we expanded the system! It is harder than a blue square, but not quite a Magic diamond. I dare say at most other nearby resorts you might call "Trick" a black diamond, but it just couldn't hold up to the likes of Talisman and Sorcerer.
4) Adjusted some of the trail difficulty ratings. As anyone who has skied Magic can attest, our terrain can be quite challenging. Even the green circles and blue squares require a skiers/snowboarders up most attention. For that reason we needed to reclassify some of our trails.
source: http://www.magicmtn.com/alpineupdates.php

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

It's good to see that they're corecting some of the foolishness done by the last "Marketing professional". That was really hainous. I still disagree with calling Wizard a blue square. I think any true intermediate will not be happy when they turn right at Deadman's corner and see that drop.

Glad to see some positive things happening there.

 

[billski]

It's good to see that they're corecting some of the foolishness done by the last "Marketing professional". That was really hainous. I still disagree with calling Wizard a blue square. I think any true intermediate will not be happy when they turn right at Deadman's corner and see that drop.

Glad to see some positive things happening there.

I never gave much thought to that curve other than that I enjoyed the challenge, but you're right. I think they want/need to have a full blue run down from the top. I see that they note it as "slow skiing zone", but words alone would not be enough, agreed. Perhaps they could do a small terrain mod to swing wide on skier's left, encroaching a wee bit on Slide of Hans.

 

[MrMagic]

i think that the first time a ski area has lowered the trail count!!!! good for them. i always felt that some trails should have an upper and lower section, esp if the they are long or the pitch changes, thus changing their diff. rating, but once aginmy hat is off to magic, killington take note

 

[kcyanks1]

While I'm not a fan of inflating trail counts, it does make it easier to give an accurate report of what is open and closed. Because of its terribly inflated trail count, Killington can very easily let you know that "Superstar Middle", for example, is open, but "Superstar Headwall" is not. Other areas can't do that quite as easily. They can though next to a trial say "upper only" or something like that. It is just that most areas don't. The only area I know that indicates partial openings of trials on its website is Stowe, and from what I recall, they don't tell you which part.

 

[bvibert]

I still disagree with calling Wizard a blue square. I think any true intermediate will not be happy when they turn right at Deadman's corner and see that drop.

I agree with you there, that is a very intimidating drop. The trail is fairly narrow in that section too.

 

[billski]

I agree with you there, that is a very intimidating drop. The trail is fairly narrow in that section too.

I got a note from Matt, who says now with their new(better) grooming equipment, they plan to keep the turn maintained. I presume that means taking out the bumps. At this point, that's about the best one can hope for, as he did confirm they need to have a blue trail down from the top. It's refreshing to have a Marketing guy who actually gets out on the slopes and experiences it.

 

[bvibert]

I got a note from Matt, who says now with their new(better) grooming equipment, they plan to keep the turn maintained. I presume that means taking out the bumps. At this point, that's about the best one can hope for, as he did confirm they need to have a blue trail down from the top. It's refreshing to have a Marketing guy who actually gets out on the slopes and experiences it.

The grooming should make it less intimidating for intermediates and also less interesting for me. Oh well you can't win em all..

 

[billski]

slice and dice

While I'm not a fan of inflating trail counts, it does make it easier to give an accurate report of what is open and closed. Because of its terribly inflated trail count, Killington can very easily let you know that "Superstar Middle", for example, is open, but "Superstar Headwall" is not. Other areas can't do that quite as easily. They can though next to a trial say "upper only" or something like that. It is just that most areas don't. The only area I know that indicates partial openings of trials on its website is Stowe, and from what I recall, they don't tell you which part.

That's a good point. Often, the "upper" section of a trail has different characteristics as you suggest, and sometimes mountain ops has a different grooming strategy for the two halves. I often hear myself saying, "upper was a dream but lower was a dog" and visa-versa, which is a good way to describe.

another way I look at "trails" is to ask the question, "how many different ways are there down from the top?" and I'm not counting trivial combinations with cutovers, etc.

 

[koreshot]

One more reason why I really need to go check Magic out this year.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

I got a note from Matt, who says now with their new(better) grooming equipment, they plan to keep the turn maintained. I presume that means taking out the bumps. At this point, that's about the best one can hope for, as he did confirm they need to have a blue trail down from the top. It's refreshing to have a Marketing guy who actually gets out on the slopes and experiences it.

That section never really bumps up. Grooming has generally been pretty good, there, as it has to be to keep the snow. As far as changing the trail layout, you'd have to traverse all the way to SOH, then cut back to just above Sorcerer to take any of the pitch out. You'd destroy SOH and it would still be more than an intermediate would be comfortable on.

 

[billski]

That section never really bumps up. Grooming has generally been pretty good, there, as it has to be to keep the snow. As far as changing the trail layout, you'd have to traverse all the way to SOH, then cut back to just above Sorcerer to take any of the pitch out. You'd destroy SOH and it would still be more than an intermediate would be comfortable on.

Last I was there was that windy Feb(?) 2007 day when Mt. Snow did a lift hold. Lots of bumps on that turn, maybe it was because of all the snow...We kept at it several times.

 

[bvibert]

That section never really bumps up. Grooming has generally been pretty good, there, as it has to be to keep the snow. As far as changing the trail layout, you'd have to traverse all the way to SOH, then cut back to just above Sorcerer to take any of the pitch out. You'd destroy SOH and it would still be more than an intermediate would be comfortable on.

Last I was there was that windy Feb(?) 2007 day when Mt. Snow did a lift hold. Lots of bumps on that turn, maybe it was because of all the snow...We kept at it several times.

I'll take Sled's word for it since he's much more knowledgeable on the matter. The last time I was there (sounds like the same day as billski?) it was bumped up a bit. That was only my second time there, I don't remember how it looked the first time...

 

[2knees]

That was only my second time there, I don't remember how it looked the first time...

It probably was snow covered, about 30 feet wide and it sloped downhill. :wink:


I dont recall it being much of a bump trail in the (way) past.

 

[bvibert]

It probably was snow covered, about 30 feet wide and it sloped downhill. :wink:

heeheehee

I dont recall it being much of a bump trail in the (way) past.

I wouldn't say it was much of a bump trail the day we were there either, but it definitely had bumps on it. I remember it being a bit of a handful for myself...

 

[kcyanks1]

While I'm not a fan of inflating trail counts, it does make it easier to give an accurate report of what is open and closed. Because of its terribly inflated trail count, Killington can very easily let you know that "Superstar Middle", for example, is open, but "Superstar Headwall" is not. Other areas can't do that quite as easily. They can though next to a trial say "upper only" or something like that. It is just that most areas don't. The only area I know that indicates partial openings of trials on its website is Stowe, and from what I recall, they don't tell you which part.

Funny how just a couple days later Stowe joins the crowd of inflating trail counts. And it doesn't even add accuracy, because on their trial-by-trial report (http://www.stowe.com/mountain/conditions.php) they don't split up the trails into "upper" and "lower". They still use the partial-open indicator (which they deserve some credit for as other areas don't do) without specifying which part is open.

 

[billski]

Funny how just a couple days later Stowe joins the crowd of inflating trail counts. And it doesn't even add accuracy, because on their trial-by-trial report (http://www.stowe.com/mountain/conditions.php) they don't split up the trails into "upper" and "lower". They still use the partial-open indicator (which they deserve some credit for as other areas don't do) without specifying which part is open.

It reminds me of emission credits the government uses to control pollution or airline routes/gates. Only so many credits to go around, you buy/sell them to other companies. We should have a trail count limit for the entire state of Vermont. Magic can sell their trail count credits to Stowe.

 

[2knees]

It reminds me of emission credits the government uses to control pollution or airline routes/gates. Only so many credits to go around, you buy/sell them to other companies. We should have a trail count limit for the entire state of Vermont. Magic can sell their trail count credits to Stowe.

ok this is kinda out of left field but your post jogged this in my memory. For some reason, i remember reading somewhere that killington is not allowed to surpass 200 trails total by the state. Why i have no idea since the reality is they could condense their count easily down to 150 or so and then add.

sorry for the hijack.

magic rules.

 

[sledhaulingmedic]

I'll take Sled's word for it since he's much more knowledgeable on the matter. The last time I was there (sounds like the same day as billski?) it was bumped up a bit. That was only my second time there, I don't remember how it looked the first time...

I should say, in the time that I skied there, it generally didn't bump up very much. For the most part, people take dead man's curve as one big turn, pop a couple of quick turns and point em to the top of Talisman.

 

[billski]

un-groomed ecstasy.

I should say, in the time that I skied there, it generally didn't bump up very much. For the most part, people take dead man's curve as one big turn, pop a couple of quick turns and point em to the top of Talisman.

There seemed to be a bit of trepidation and pause last year, as many people seemed to side-slip their way down. I remember popping 3 or 4 good bumps on the way along the turn. Then again, it might be senility kicking in, or just the day of un-groomed ecstasy.