Death At Jay Peak

[C-Rex]

I hesitate to even make a comment. Death of anyone, especially someone enjoying recreation is devistating and at a minimum should have a deeper impact on people than trying to deduce error, trail names, gearing, or trauma. .

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about getting information that could help make our respective sports safer. If we find trends in the causes of fatal injuries, we may be able to do something to help avoid them. Even if I knew the person in question, and was devastated from the loss, I'd still want to know the details of what happened. Even if it was a careless attitude or stupid choice that caused the incident. Why are people so afraid to assign responsibility to the dead. I'm not going to sit around and pretend it was nobody's fault and that it was just "God" calling him home. Knowing what truly caused the incident will help me avoid the same mistake. If I die on the mountain, I want people to know what happened. Even if it was just that I did something dumb. Maybe someone else will avoid the same stupid choice.

 

[MV Frank]

so the guy that died actually works at my company, which is how I originally heard about it. young guy...which makes it especially tragic

 

[Zand]

Can-Am doesn't surprise me... skied it yesterday and while it wasn't awful, there were a few spots on skiers right where the boilerplate came out of nowhere. It surprised me even though I tried my best to scout where the bad spots were from the lift.

As for the Jet, I don't think I've ever been up there when it didn't get pretty bad after noon or so, especially on a weekend. Not as bad as Northway or Goat, no, but still enough (considering its steepness) that I can definitely see someone losing it and smacking a tree or lift tower.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Reality is that 4 deaths per week over 10 weeks would bring us to our normal average of about 40 deaths per ski season.

Okay, but I'm not sure I understand your point given the season is substantially longer than 10 weeks.

Majority of deaths are skiers rather than snowboarders.

Okay, but a majority of people on the mountain are skiers rather than snowboarders. Not sure I understand your point here either.

 

[kingdom-tele]

What are you talking about?

I'm talking about getting information that could help make our respective sports safer. If we find trends in the causes of fatal injuries, we may be able to do something to help avoid them. Even if I knew the person in question, and was devastated from the loss, I'd still want to know the details of what happened. Even if it was a careless attitude or stupid choice that caused the incident. Why are people so afraid to assign responsibility to the dead. I'm not going to sit around and pretend it was nobody's fault and that it was just "God" calling him home. Knowing what truly caused the incident will help me avoid the same mistake. If I die on the mountain, I want people to know what happened. Even if it was just that I did something dumb. Maybe someone else will avoid the same stupid choice.

what else do you need to know to make your own decision processes?

trends? please tell me your not that naive. but I suppose if you believe dissection of events and attempting to rationalize a thousand different variables that no one could possibly know is somehow more useful than developing your own awareness then analysis of "trends" might be useful.

good luck. be safe.

 

[Madroch]

Seems like this year I am noticing the stories a lot more... I don't need to know how/why/what they were wearing... the lesson I get reinforced is we are quite mortal and it can all be over in the millisecond it takes to catch a tip, log, stump, ice patch--skiing is a dangerous passion to have.. enjoy every moment- and do so responsibly...I swear I don't know whether to hug my kids or smack in the head when they do stupid kid stuff on the slopes... so I do both--not necessarily in that order-- only seems to confuse the hell out em...

 

[C-Rex]

what else do you need to know to make your own decision processes?

trends? please tell me your not that naive. but I suppose if you believe dissection of events and attempting to rationalize a thousand different variables that no one could possibly know is somehow more useful than developing your own awareness then analysis of "trends" might be useful.

good luck. be safe.

Well, if you look at all the variables over time, and notice one that pretty common, you may be able to do something to take that variable out of the equation. Will it save everyone from that variable? No. Will other variables still kill people? You bet. But if you could reduce the numbers, then why not. One life is worth any investment. I'm not going to just accept "He fell. He died. He had a helmet on." as the whole story. Did he break his neck? Did he get impaled on a broken off limb? Did he break ribs and puncture a lung? Did he break a leg and sever an artery? How fast was he going? How far did he slide before impact? There's a million details that could lead to a better understanding of how these things happen.

Any way this info can educate people or lead to better safety equipment is good. So I don't really understand where your "well, I don't understand it, so eff-it." attitude comes from.

 

[drjeff]

Okay, but I'm not sure I understand your point given the season is substantially longer than 10 weeks.

True, however the vast majority of the on average 65 or so million skier/rider visits do happen in the basically 10 week time frame between Christmas and mid March

 

[kingdom-tele]

Well, if you look at all the variables over time, and notice one that pretty common, you may be able to do something to take that variable out of the equation. Will it save everyone from that variable? No. Will other variables still kill people? You bet. But if you could reduce the numbers, then why not. One life is worth any investment. I'm not going to just accept "He fell. He died. He had a helmet on." as the whole story. Did he break his neck? Did he get impaled on a broken off limb? Did he break ribs and puncture a lung? Did he break a leg and sever an artery? How fast was he going? How far did he slide before impact? There's a million details that could lead to a better understanding of how these things happen.

Any way this info can educate people or lead to better safety equipment is good. So I don't really understand where your "well, I don't understand it, so eff-it." attitude comes from.

known variables: gravity, speed, ground reaction forces, icy surfaces, immovable objects, human physiology.

unkown variables: each individuals ontogenetics that led up to the moment of their passing.

its your choice to delve into the minutia of someone else's passing, just seems arbitrary when your the one standing over a drop deciding how to proceed down a mountain

be safe, be aware

 

[Edd]

"Ontogenetics ".... Had to look this up.

One thing frequently mentioned in helmet threads is the notion that a helmet makes the skier overconfident. This doesn't seem plausible to me unless we're talking about a teenager. I don't know a single person who fits into that category.

 

[David Metsky]

known variables: gravity, speed, ground reaction forces, icy surfaces, immovable objects, human physiology.

unkown variables: each individuals ontogenetics that led up to the moment of their passing.

Other variables - Changes in ski technology (shaped vs straight), changes in boots (higher boots leading to tib/fib fractures), changes in bindings, aggressive grooming and trail construction/layout, snowmaking, lots more people skiing the trees/parks/speed.

 

[BigJay]

Anyone ever tought about using a search engine with the words: JAY PEAK DEATH

You get detailed articles.

We saw the evac and the patrol doing CPR all the way down to the bottom.

Accident happened after the liftline/can-am split.

Can-Am was skiing great on sunday... lots of fluff and plenty of support to get some grip out of your edges... can't say the same about Northway, Goat Run and Vermonter...

Things were still pretty good over the Jet side at 3PM. Woods were scrapped clean all over the mountain sunday afternoon!

 

[BenedictGomez]

True, however the vast majority of the on average 65 or so million skier/rider visits do happen in the basically 10 week time frame between Christmas and mid March

I did think of that, and it makes sense especially in the east (out west the season generally starts/ends - sooner/later), but when your N's are so small to begin with (38 or 40) taken out of a such a massive population (~65 Million), even if a very small number like 2 or 5 deaths fell outside that 10 week range it will mathematically make a huge difference overall. That's my long-winded way of saying I dont understand the point of calling out those 10 weeks rather than the whole season.

 

[mlctvt]

http://blog.ctnews.com/snowzone/2012/02/11/skier-dies-at-mount-snow/

Ridge is the same trail where the last skier died at Mount Snow a few years ago. In that case it was a young woman.
I'm quite certain both happened in the steep section. High speed could have been an issue? This section of trail is where I always see my fastest speeds for a blue trail.

 

[billski]

For every death there are larger number of accidents that under similar circumstances did not result in death.
For every head injury case, how many were avoided because of a helmet. This information is not readily available because walk-aways are unknown. I'd rather wear a bucket than not. While providing no guarantee, it most likely mitigates the risk.

Like jrmagic, I did a face plant on Saturday onto bullet-proof scratch. Got a couple big shiners and a bruise around the lower goggles. I would probably have broken a few things had I not had the helmet shell on. I was also wearing a race helmet which has more protection below the ears than most. Did I report it? No. Nor the huge bruise on my hip.

 

[Abubob]

http://www.wcax.com/story/16915463/snowboarder-dies-at-jay-peak

Thought maybe this was about Whitney.

 

[2knees]

Thought maybe this was about Whitney.

I thought maybe she's fallen off a chair lift.

Did you hit a tree?

I think you might be trying too hard.

 

[Abubob]

I think you might be trying too hard.

 

[Glenn]

What surprises me is the number of deaths where people are wearing helmets, but they don't say what the cause of death was. I know that's kind of a violation of privacy but it'd be useful to make the sports safer. If the person was wearing a helmet and died of a head injury, then the effectiveness of helmets gets called into question. But it doesn't really matter if you break a leg, sever an artery, and bleed out.

I'm not trying to be morbid... It doesn't surprise me. When your body hits an imoveable object at a certain rate of speed, a helmet isn't going to do much good; internal injuries.

As I hinted to in another post, a lot of folks think you're "safe" with a helmet. That's true to a certain regard, but you're far from invincible.

 

[Highway Star]

Man this shit does freak me out, it happens so fast

That's a perfect example of how not to ski trees. 20mph into huge pine trunks? No thanks.