Death at Pats Peak

[thetrailboss]

Thank you for the informative reply jimmck. I did not mean to assert that there was anyone to blame in this tragic accident. I realize completely that we all assume a certain level of risk when skiing/riding but I did feel that the ranger program helped to mitigate even a small amount of that risk. It's something that I would like to see return in some form.

How would they have made a difference in this accident?

 

[LuckyStrike]

How would they have made a difference in this accident?

IMO probably no difference at all.

 

[BodeMiller1]

When driving a car you don't go so fast that your headlights...

Same thing on skis. If it's foggy ...

Plus, if it's foggy the snow is soft. Especially at Pats that time of day. Spring?

Best guess, he caught an edge or hit soft snow and couldn't recover.

 

[jimmck]

Thank you for the informative reply jimmck. I did not mean to assert that there was anyone to blame in this tragic accident. I realize completely that we all assume a certain level of risk when skiing/riding but I did feel that the ranger program helped to mitigate even a small amount of that risk. It's something that I would like to see return in some form.

There are many that would like to see the return of the ranger program.

My intention was to provide clarity on the ranger program, I hope my response wasn't seen as confrontational to you/your post.

IMO there is a danger in bringing up the status of the ranger program and (unintentionally or not) conflating it with tragic accident where there was zero chance a ranger could have even the slightest influence on the outcome.

 

[LuckyStrike]

There are many that would like to see the return of the ranger program.

My intention was to provide clarity on the ranger program, I hope my response wasn't seen as confrontational to you/your post.

IMO there is a danger in bringing up the status of the ranger program and (unintentionally or not) conflating it with tragic accident where there was zero chance a ranger could have even the slightest influence on the outcome.

No problem at all jimmck!

 

[2Planker]

Do patrollers carry AEDs on sleds or their person? Should they?

No, not usually on them. They‘re pricey and a lil bulky. But most places do have them at the base Patrol Room. I know of 3 places that do keep one or two up top in a ready to go fully charged status. Smaller places may not have an AED, relying on the Ambulance that will be called.
They also suck in the real cold, and always have to be fully charged, which can be tough in a top shack.

AED’s do save lives though, and hopefully will become more common on the hill. Time means everything…

 

[joshua segal]

I am unaware of any patroller who carries an AED in his/her backpack. Many patrollers carry a lot of emergency equipment in seriously oversized backpacks. Anecdotal: A patroller whom I knew with 50+ years of experience told me that after carrying a pipe-cutter (to deal with potential impalement injuries) which he never used, finally removed it from his load!

Often, it takes minutes to even find out that an accident occurred and minutes more to get a patroller to the scene. As far as I can tell, the only shot the young man had (if what happened was "commotio cordis") would have been a nearby friend who could have begun CPR immediately.

 

[deadheadskier]

Well yes, CPR is extremely important to keep blood flowing to the brain and other major organs, but it's not going to restart the heart like an AED. Zoll is pretty much the gold standard for AEDs these days and compact, refurbished ones go for $900. That doesn't seem like too much of an investment for a ski area to purchase several to strategically place in various locations; patrol and lift shacks around the hill etc. Whether a patroller could have it in their pack, I guess is up for debate. They're only about the size of a child's small lunchbox and weigh about 7 pounds.

Given how rare these events are, maybe that's why you don't see it.

 

[2Planker]

I am unaware of any patroller who carries an AED in his/her backpack. Many patrollers carry a lot of emergency equipment in seriously oversized backpacks. Anecdotal: A patroller whom I knew with 50+ years of experience told me that after carrying a pipe-cutter (to deal with potential impalement injuries) which he never used, finally removed it from his load!

Often, it takes minutes to even find out that an accident occurred and minutes more to get a patroller to the scene. As far as I can tell, the only shot the young man had (if what happened was "commotio cordis") would have been a nearby friend who could have begun CPR immediately.

Correct.
Immediate CPR is essential, but it barely keeps them alive, it’s the AED that is needed to resuscitate them and “restart“ their heart. So the sooner it arrives, the better

I’ve carried a pipe/pole cutter for 40 years, and Yes, it has been used

 

[joshua segal]

Correct.
Immediate CPR is essential, but it barely keeps them alive, it’s the AED that is needed to resuscitate them and “restart“ their heart. So the sooner it arrives, the better

...

Agree. But do you have a suggestion of how to get an AED to the patient more quickly?

 

[2Planker]

Agree. But do you have a suggestion of how to get an AED to the patient more quickly?

Yes - Strategically placed at several top shacks , and on a couple SnoMo’s to respond to lower mt incidents.

Responding patrollers probably also carrying an oxygen tank w/ BVM and trauma pack in addition to their regular patrol back/belt pack, all while draggin the sled. It all adds up to a ton of gear for something that is quite infrequent but will clear out a top shack in 30 seconds

 

[drjeff]

Agree. But do you have a suggestion of how to get an AED to the patient more quickly?

Short of attaching one to say every 3rd or 4th fixed snowgun mount or lift tower, not really sure how that realistically could be done? And even then, you'd need to have a dedicated electrical source at each location to keep them charged. In theory it sounds like a good idea, in reality though, with what current technology for keeping an AED charged, not sure how realistic it is

 

[joshua segal]

Yes - Strategically placed at several top shacks , and on a couple SnoMo’s to respond to lower mt incidents.

Responding patrollers probably also carrying an oxygen tank w/ BVM and trauma pack in addition to their regular patrol back/belt pack, all while draggin the sled. It all adds up to a ton of gear for something that is quite infrequent but will clear out a top shack in 30 seconds

Not likely to help. While our top shack has an AED (as well as all the oxygen related paraphernalia), by the time the victim was found, patrol was notified and a Patrolman got the AED to the scene: It would already have been too long. Best we can hope for is that CPR can keep the victim alive until the AED arrives on scene.

 

[thetrailboss]

AED: I believe we still have not heard the official details of the accident. I think we still are guessing as to what happened based on rumor.

 

[mlkrgr]

Does anyone else think that ending the ranger program at Wachusett and then not replacing it with something else was a huge mistake? I'm not saying that the death there is a result of this decision but if I was a lawyer for the family of that dead skier I would be asking questions. That issue aside, the rangers would patrol the trails, check the woods and assist the grooming crews closing and opening trails. Now it's apparently the job of ski patrol? Here is Sean Sutner, writing for the Worcester Telegram & Gazette, on the end of the ranger program:

Interestingly enough, Sutner was quoted (re: the Wachusett death) in an nbcboston.com piece https://www.nbcboston.com/news/loca...fety-after-two-deaths-in-new-england/3007298/

I'm not saying that the local media is trying to cover one of the region's largest advertisers but it's odd that this issue isn't being brought up.

Having rangers wouldn't make a difference. I will give Wachusett more flack for not groomer Upper smith at night when it could have used it for much fo the season. They still close the upper part while the groomers only buff out the lower section.

The patrol has been late closing the lift a couple times during the season b/c they were taking care of something else when they needed to take the last chair up.

 

[BodeMiller1]

It seems like many are tired of all the injuries and deaths. There are always safety ad campaigns. Now there are more...

 

[drjeff]

It seems like many are tired of all the injuries and deaths. There are always safety ad campaigns. Now there are more...

I think an additional part of it, and this certainly became apparent over the last 3yrs or so, is that more and more of society have seemingly adopted the perspective that any risk at all is too much risk. And often while that group may be a minority percentage of the population in gross terms, they can be very vocal about their disdain of any and all risk

 

[JimG.]

A lot of scared people.

Scared people are dangerous.

 

[BodeMiller1]

A lot of scared people.

Scared people are dangerous.

Over coming fear of heights is a big part of the sport. Basketball is a contact sport, football is a collision sport. Skiing should be in between. You're right if you ger scarred and freeze in the wrong moment you're done. - not good.

Dr. Jeff, spot on, there is a tyranny of the minority when it comes to this stuff. The scarred (for whatever reason are more vocal) and a pain in the arse.

Yep

 

[raisingarizona]

A lot of scared people.

Scared people are dangerous.

FKNA man.

Swamp.