Did Mount Snow lose the Dew Tour?

[drjeff]

God how they ruined it! What a party! I am a boarder and I can honestly say that the Dew Tour will have nothing on that. The Dew Tour will have a large hip hop influence, with a bunch of g'd out white kids who can't even pull off ebonics correctly. I hate rap and love music that probably has me dated! The world is passing me by and I am only 31.

Heres to long T's, Short Ski's and Crappy Music!

If they pulled in a WC race, that would be a worthy event. These park events are like getting a crack high.

My take on the Dew Tour and the good 'ol BMMC as a late 30's skier who witnessed the Dew Tour 1st hand at Mount Snow the last 2 years and hit the BMMC from 2001-2005.

From a non new schooler/park rat/pipe rider perspective, the athletes competign at The Dew Tour and at teh BMMC are pretty amazing - since there aren't any "walk up" amateurs in The Dew Tour vs. at the BMMC top to bottom the Dew Tour has a stronger field also with athletes that you will see in the Winter X-games a few weeks later, whereas in the BMMC these days, you're basically not seeing any current national team members.

Course wise, OL with a mogul course looks pretty sweet IMHO, but interms of the sheer size, the features they build for the slopestyle course for The Dew Tour are MASSIVE, the kind of size where you really can't appreciate how big they are until you see them in person and then likely in the weeks immediately after the competition get to ski/ride over and around them. Plus the lighting + sound system that they bring for the 1/2 pipe for the Dew Tour is very impressive. Additionally while the BMMC has gotten some TV coverage on/off over the last few years courtesy of Glenn Plake and his RSN ""Reel Thrills" TV show, seeing your home mountain LIVE on national TV in a prime sports time slot on a Saturday afternoon far surpasses "Reel Thrills"

Party wise - The "village" that they build for The Dew Tour is/was fun to check out for me for 15 minutes or so. Pick up a few stickers/shirts/free schwagg, but then for me it became not more more than something to look at and get a bit annoyed by all the folks walking around it with their ski pants hanging down around their knees pretending to be way cooler than they actually were. The on-hill party scene at the BMMC, for the standpoint of someone who really enjoys tailgate style BBQ's/parties etc far supassed The Dew Tour. The off hill party scene - there in all likelyhood will be some national acts brought in for The Dew Tour who will be performing if not in the immediate Bear Base area, on the Killington Road that weekend. Much of the party scene though Dew Tour wise tended to be smaller private parties at various places that the atletes were staying.

It's more like tryign to compare apples + oranges - they both have their strong points, but if your a strong fan of one and not the other, you're likely to find it more of a novelty to check out for an hour or so before you're interest is lost.

 

[drjeff]

If they pulled in a WC race, that would be a worthy event. These park events are like getting a crack high.

Given the $$ that it takes to get a course certified, prepped and then set up, unfortunately I doubt that they'd be looking into that anytime soon, especially since hill wise K really couldn't host any speed events.

 

[deadheadskier]

obviously not allowing booze was a biggie. but it was an incredible free-form party. sure plenty of drinking, but lots of incredible food. there was a competition for the best food. people in costumes. all sorts of craziness. essentially they wanted to sterilize and control it. was it a change in liquor laws or did they decide they no longer wanted to turn a blind eye? in any case like millerm says it went from 100 to nothing in a year or two. instead now they promote a rock concert. see the rules below:

On-Snow Venue

Please leave coolers, alcohol, BBQ’s, chairs and tents in your vehicle as they will not be permitted into the event. We ask that you leave the following at home: couches, picnic tables, kegs and animals.

This might give you an idea of what went on.

I went to the BMMC several times, but all pre-aged 21 in the early - mid 90s when drinking didn't matter to me. But I do remember it being a helluva party.

I can completely understand why POWDR put an end to it. With the way liability has become an ever increasing issue, its just life. You used to be able tailgate at concerts like crazy in the parking lots before shows at Great Woods, SPAC, everywhere. It's no longer.

Doesn't mean the BMMC can't be a kick ass party again with people purchasing their booze from the licensed vendor.

 

[SkiDork]

that was a decent video but it didn't really give an idea of the sheer size of the base area party scene they had some years. It was gigantic.

 

[SpinmasterK]

First off, hats off to Greg, Vinny, Kelly and their team at Mount Snow for putting the Dew Tour on the map.
Greg brought up some great points regarding the 22-foot pipe in his post. He is correct in stating that a small percentage of folks actually ski/ride a 22-foot pipe. Here at Killington we do plan on leaving the 22-foot pipe up all season. In addition, we are also looking at options to add a smaller pipe somewhere on the mountain.
I know a number of you are concerned about snowmaking for the event and taking resources away from other areas. Over the past few years we have made a significant investment in snowmaking, including fan guns, pipe replacement and additional Low Energy guns, especially in the Bear Mountain area for hosting such events. Remember, we did build a 22-foot pipe for the Grand Prix in March of 2009.
Indeed, this event will require additional snowmaking resources, however, as we all know, the weather and temperatures will dictate how much resources will be needed to construct the pipe and slopestyle course, as well as opening terrain throughout the mountain.
As for the slopestyle course, we (Killington and Snow Park Technologies) will decide which trail (Dream Maker, Lower Skyeburst, Wildfire) will be best suited to not only provide a world-class venue, but allow spectators viewing access while having a minimal impact upon our skiing/riding guests.
There will be a number of summer projects getting underway in the next few months in preparation for the event, so I’ll have information regarding these projects in the Killington Insider Blog.

 

[Rogman]

Nice to see you back posting again, Tom. What you are saying is music to my ears. It's a great event, and a Killington is a great venue for it. I'm confident that Killington will do whatever is necessary to make it a success.

 

[Highway Star]

First off, hats off to Greg, Vinny, Kelly and their team at Mount Snow for putting the Dew Tour on the map.
Greg brought up some great points regarding the 22-foot pipe in his post. He is correct in stating that a small percentage of folks actually ski/ride a 22-foot pipe. Here at Killington we do plan on leaving the 22-foot pipe up all season. In addition, we are also looking at options to add a smaller pipe somewhere on the mountain.
I know a number of you are concerned about snowmaking for the event and taking resources away from other areas. Over the past few years we have made a significant investment in snowmaking, including fan guns, pipe replacement and additional Low Energy guns, especially in the Bear Mountain area for hosting such events. Remember, we did build a 22-foot pipe for the Grand Prix in March of 2009.
Indeed, this event will require additional snowmaking resources, however, as we all know, the weather and temperatures will dictate how much resources will be needed to construct the pipe and slopestyle course, as well as opening terrain throughout the mountain.
As for the slopestyle course, we (Killington and Snow Park Technologies) will decide which trail (Dream Maker, Lower Skyeburst, Wildfire) will be best suited to not only provide a world-class venue, but allow spectators viewing access while having a minimal impact upon our skiing/riding guests.
There will be a number of summer projects getting underway in the next few months in preparation for the event, so I’ll have information regarding these projects in the Killington Insider Blog.

Hi Tom.

Good to hear about the small to medium sized halfpipe, I think that's a much more comfortable size for most people to practice on, including myself.

I vote for Upper and Lower Wildfire as the park venue - it can be seen from the skye peak quad, results in minimal impact to Bear area traffic, and has the best natural terrain/pitch for a park.

When the slopestyle was on lower skyeburst for the '09 granprix, I couldn't figure out any way to veiw it. Bummer. And Dreamaker is too flat.

Or, as someone else suggested, you could put the park on Devil's Fiddle, which would be EXTREME.

 

[thorski]

Did i hear small to medium sized Halfpipe or both a small and a medium sized Halfpipe. Either way i'm happy. Now i'm gonna go crank some Manowar.

 

[neil]

Can't wait to see Highway Star doing high speed carved turns down the halfpipe at Killington this season!

 

[Geoff]

I know a number of you are concerned about snowmaking for the event and taking resources away from other areas. Over the past few years we have made a significant investment in snowmaking, including fan guns, pipe replacement and additional Low Energy guns, especially in the Bear Mountain area for hosting such events. Remember, we did build a 22-foot pipe for the Grand Prix in March of 2009.
Indeed, this event will require additional snowmaking resources, however, as we all know, the weather and temperatures will dictate how much resources will be needed to construct the pipe and slopestyle course, as well as opening terrain throughout the mountain.

The problem is that we also remember how long Killington ran the guns to create the snow for that March event. I don't care how much natural snow we get.... the pipe and slopestyle course are made from manmade snow. It's not a problem in March since there isn't much snowmaking after Presidents weekend. January 20th means you have to blow all that snow the first two weeks of January. Your paying customers, and you've already taken our money, expect the traditional amount of terrain to be open by then even in an unfavorable year. This could create a gigantic conflict for your very scarse compressor and water pump resources. If you get unlucky with the weather, you're going to alienate still more of your existing customer base.

If you're renting more compressors for this, I'll happily STFU. If Ovation, Double Dipper, OL, and Fiddle all have ropes across them in January, the rest of the mountain is death cookies after a thaw, and you're blowing like crazy for the half pipe and a slopestyle course, you deserve the public spanking you're going to get if you're unlucky with the weather.

 

[Highway Star]

The problem is that we also remember how long Killington ran the guns to create the snow for that March event. I don't care how much natural snow we get.... the pipe and slopestyle course are made from manmade snow. It's not a problem in March since there isn't much snowmaking after Presidents weekend. January 20th means you have to blow all that snow the first two weeks of January. Your paying customers, and you've already taken our money, expect the traditional amount of terrain to be open by then even in an unfavorable year. This could create a gigantic conflict for your very scarse compressor and water pump resources. If you get unlucky with the weather, you're going to alienate still more of your existing customer base.

If you're renting more compressors for this, I'll happily STFU. If Ovation, Double Dipper, OL, and Fiddle all have ropes across them in January, the rest of the mountain is death cookies after a thaw, and you're blowing like crazy for the half pipe and a slopestyle course, you deserve the public spanking you're going to get if you're unlucky with the weather.

I thought the bolded statement above was quite hilarious......I wouldn't call 20+ compressors and bunch of big pumps "scarce".

They are going to be fairly limited as to the absolute number of snowguns they can put on the the slopestyle trail and halfpipe unless they beef up the piping and add hydrants every 20 ft. There's no way they can focus the entire system there and run 250 guns on one trail at once. Lol. Maybe 50-100 guns. That still leaves 100-150+ guns worth of snowmaking capacity available, which what they would run under normal resurfacing or expansion - only time I know of when they do 250+ guns is during full tilt expansion. Given the pending event, I would expect them to max out pump capacity in any favorable weather window from November into January.

Yes, I agree it could be a major concern if they hit a prolonged stretch of mild weather and can only run 100 guns because of maxed out compressor capacity, then they have to decide if they make so on the venue or resurface/expand other trails.....

 

[Geoff]

I thought the bolded statement above was quite hilarious......I wouldn't call 20+ compressors and bunch of big pumps "scarce". ..

So idiot boy.... On a footprint as sprawling as Killington, what fraction of their acres can they blow at one time? A couple of percent? Killington can barely do two trails top to bottom at the same time. If there is the usual January thaw, compressor capacity will indeed be a scarse resource.

 

[WWF-VT]

Wait a minute...doesn't Killington have "the largest snowmaking system on the planet"?

 

[millerm277]

Wait a minute...doesn't Killington have "the largest snowmaking system on the planet"?

Largest, sure. Most powerful? Potentially. However, when you consider the sheer size of what they have to cover....they could always use more. Part of the issue is the width of the trails as well. They've got a LOT of extremely wide trails. Nearly all of Bear and Skye are huge wide runs that require a lot of snow to cover. That takes a huge amount of snow, and is why they can only really run full blast on two or so of the "signature" trails, like OL or Superstar at a time.

 

[Highway Star]

So idiot boy.... On a footprint as sprawling as Killington, what fraction of their acres can they blow at one time? A couple of percent? Killington can barely do two trails top to bottom at the same time. If there is the usual January thaw, compressor capacity will indeed be a scarse resource.

Well that's rather rude.....:roll:

Anyway, I calculate they can cover roughly 5% or 30 acres of their 600 acres served by snowmaking with a 3 ft base depth in a 24 hour period, in optimal conditions. Mind you that's enough to open a trail from scratch. That's one trail 13,000 ft long and 100 feet wide..........or quite a few trails actually. That's one snowgun every 50 feet.

If you spread the guns out further, they could potentially lightly resurface 15-20% of their terrain in a 24 hour period. Very labor intensive though...........

 

[mondeo]

Get off my lawn!!

Damn kids...

 

[drjeff]

Well that's rather rude.....:roll:

Anyway, I calculate they can cover roughly 5% or 30 acres of their 600 acres served by snowmaking with a 3 ft base depth in a 24 hour period, in optimal conditions. Mind you that's enough to open a trail from scratch. That's one trail 13,000 ft long and 100 feet wide..........or quite a few trails actually. That's one snowgun every 50 feet.

If you spread the guns out further, they could potentially lightly resurface 15-20% of their terrain in a 24 hour period. Very labor intensive though...........

The best way conceptually to think about the snowmaking commitment that K will have for The Dew Tour, is the 1/2 pipe, well we all know how long it takes typically to blow enough snow for it. Now for the slopestyle course, basically on the portion of whatever trail that they determine they'll be using for the course, that trail will roughly require as much gun time to produce enough snow for the jumps as the guns running for the 1/2 pipe will need. To put it in perspective as to how much snow goes into some of those jumps they build, at the end of the season at Mount Snow last year, they had a video shoot for The Meatheads 2010 movie. The mountain ops/parks folks basically piled together the snow used for the last 2 jumps for the Dew Tour slopestyle course and they ended up with the roughly 80 footer you'll see in this years movie - when they were done with the shoot, they basically just let the pile melt out, and it was from that pile that they still had enough snow left for their Memorial Day Weekend Peace Pipe jam to plow out and create a patch for setting up rails that was a good 100 yards long, by about 10 yards wide and probably close to an average depth of 3 feet - it was still a BIG pile even after 6+ weeks of melting.

For the most minimum effect on K's snowmaking system for this event, the best thing that could happen would be a bunch of electricians running around Bear right now, stringing up a bunch of outlet boxes along the competition venues and then a couple of flatbeds trucks show up from Utah loaded up with a bunch of those snazzy looking yellow/red/blue Techno-Alpin fan guns - all the production you need, without using any of the compressed air in K's air system

 

[gmcunni]

Even if the rest of the mountain got a little less snow-making and they closed a weekend earlier than they could have isn't it worth it to have the Dew Tour?

 

[skiadikt]

not to regular who doesn't give 2 poops about a dew tour.

 

[Highway Star]

The best way conceptually to think about the snowmaking commitment that K will have for The Dew Tour, is the 1/2 pipe, well we all know how long it takes typically to blow enough snow for it. Now for the slopestyle course, basically on the portion of whatever trail that they determine they'll be using for the course, that trail will roughly require as much gun time to produce enough snow for the jumps as the guns running for the 1/2 pipe will need. To put it in perspective as to how much snow goes into some of those jumps they build, at the end of the season at Mount Snow last year, they had a video shoot for The Meatheads 2010 movie. The mountain ops/parks folks basically piled together the snow used for the last 2 jumps for the Dew Tour slopestyle course and they ended up with the roughly 80 footer you'll see in this years movie - when they were done with the shoot, they basically just let the pile melt out, and it was from that pile that they still had enough snow left for their Memorial Day Weekend Peace Pipe jam to plow out and create a patch for setting up rails that was a good 100 yards long, by about 10 yards wide and probably close to an average depth of 3 feet - it was still a BIG pile even after 6+ weeks of melting.

For the most minimum effect on K's snowmaking system for this event, the best thing that could happen would be a bunch of electricians running around Bear right now, stringing up a bunch of outlet boxes along the competition venues and then a couple of flatbeds trucks show up from Utah loaded up with a bunch of those snazzy looking yellow/red/blue Techno-Alpin fan guns - all the production you need, without using any of the compressed air in K's air system

Well the math is not very complex if you have some idea of the rough dimensions. A massive pro/superpark level tabletop jump is somewhere around 5-10 acre feet of volume. (One of the tables in the dreamaker park is around 1 acre foot, BTW) Considering the snow/ice to build one is denser than normal manmade snow once moved around, so add 50% on top of that - so call it 7 to 15 acre feet snow needed for a massive jump. Consider there's 3-4 jumps like that in a pro course, plus various rail features, it probably amounts to somewhere around 50-100 acre feet for a course. A halfpipe 450ft long with roughly 50ft wide walls and 25 ft overall depth comes in at around 40 acre feet of snow. So, call it 150 acre feet of focused snowmaking, for good measure.

Killington makes approximately 3000 acre feet each year, so 150 acre-ft is 5% of that.

There whole system could produce 150 acre ft in two days of optimal snowmaking, however it would be spread out.

Suppose they can only put 10 snowguns on the halfpipe and 25 on the slopestyle, each outputing at a rate of 50 gpm. It's going to take them nearly 11 days of snowmaking to produce 150 acre feet of snow.

A "supertrail" 3500ft long, 200ft wide takes 80 acre feet to cover to a 5 foot depth.

These are just some very rough estimates to give an idea of scale.