Did Vail intentionally ruin snow reports?

[icecoast1]

What is the reasoning for this anyway?

Obviously some of it is Vail's Borg-like fixation on standardization & complete control, even in things that have no benefit to standardization.

Is it:

1) Lack of transparency beyond what's minimally required is a benefit for them?
2) Paranoia that allowing people to write as a "human", is a potential liability?

Uniformity so the customer sees the same thing regardless of which property they visit. Walk into a Lowes, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. although there may be slight differences at each store, they're generally pretty similar. They also can significantly reduce the marketing departments at each mountain when everything is uniform and can be done from Colorado

 

[cdskier]

You are missing costs. From a business point of view, it's a lot easier to maintain and update websites using the same template. Can you imagine the amount of people that would be needed to update and upload daily 37 differently formatted websites with current information. The weather reporting on their websites is also most likely automated, which does't require an individual at each resort to update every day. The weather commentary is probably handled by a single person in CO for the resorts that even provide that type of information.

Even if we subscribe to the theory that a single person in CO is updating all the info*, someone at each resort is still supplying Vail corporate in CO with the info for what trails are open. Why can't that same person update the website themselves with a brief commentary? If the websites are properly designed, it should be simple for anyone to update them even if they have little computer knowledge and shouldn't require a full time job for each resort. The responsibilities for updating the "Snow Report" could in theory quite easily be just made a part of someone else's job at each mountain if you want to save money by not having a full time snow reporter.

*I'm honestly not sure I buy the theory that it really is a single person making the updates anyway. Looking at Stowe's website, their commentary was updated at 5:38AM. Is Vail really going to pay someone in CO to be up at 3AM just to start making website updates for the eastern resorts?

To me this seems more just like Vail being overly strict and draconian and wanting everything identical at all their resorts. If you want a corporate brand and standardization, fine. But you can still allow *some* degree of local customization that wouldn't completely be out of line with your corporate templates.

 

[abc]

I’m not buying the “cost saving” theory.

But there’s no denying Vail is a “resort” that has skiing. It’s not the only one though. Many other non-Vail-owned “resorts” also “hide” their snow report too!

You can easily tell, the landing page tells you what they WANT you to see. If it’s a ski mountain, current condition report. If it’s a resort, current lodging “deals”! The priority is always clear.

 

[kbroderick]

It's not updating the snow report data that benefits most from template standardization, it's website maintenance. Speaking as a software engineer, I'd expect the marginal cost to maintain an additional site on the same template to be nearly zero from an IT standpoint (content generation and management being a different matter but probably no more expensive on the standardized template).

I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some hook in to a larger database to allow for future reporting comparing revenue and expenses to trails open, lifts open, etc., which in turn makes standardization more important.

I still prefer to have a narrative for my decision making, though.

 

[ss20]

I'm visiting Sunday River in a couple weeks and have been keeping tabs on their snow report. Whoever writes it does an AMAZING JOB with the blurb, imo. Nice blend of information and "hype" without using the wayyyyy overused words like "epic", "gnar", etc. It really makes you excited to get out there!

There is no time for sleeping in today because as of 6AM we have 10-12" of fresh snow covering the slopes and it's not ready to stop just yet. We are capping off the year with the most open terrain in the East and a perfect powder day. With some of the new snow groomed in overnight and more light fluffy snow on top, it's going to feel as smooth as butter out there. It's finally the moment we have been waiting for, so skip the breakfast and snack on sweet powder laps instead. These conditions are drool-worthy, and Mother Nature is providing free refills.

 

[MEtoVTSkier]

I wish they'd all quit using "the most open terrain in the East" it's starting to sound tacky, with them all using it continuously.

 

[deadheadskier]

The more that I think about it, I honestly think it's a skiing cultural difference as to why Vails snow reports are so lackluster compared to what people have been historically used to seeing here in the East.

Out West just doesn't have the same variable weather and snow conditions as we have in the East. All that really matters out there is recent snowfall, acreage open and daily weather. It's either a powder day or mainly packed powder except for steeper terrain that can indeed get skied down to hardpack out there.

Here in the East people expect a bit more detail and snowmaking commentary is much more valuable not just for the day ahead, but even a few days out. People want to know what's getting resurfaced, what's being allowed to bump up, when they plan on making snow and opening a favorite trail for the season. In short, how the mountain is handling operations tends to build the stoke almost as much as what mother nature is doing. Essentially, a good snow report is a much more needed marketing tool here than it is out West. It's kind of silly NOT to have a little blurb written about what's going on at the mountain and link it up on social media.

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[Edd]

I'm visiting Sunday River in a couple weeks and have been keeping tabs on their snow report. Whoever writes it does an AMAZING JOB with the blurb, imo. Nice blend of information and "hype" without using the wayyyyy overused words like "epic", "gnar", etc. It really makes you excited to get out there!

I think SR has been good about that for a long time. It was my home mountain for years. When I started to stray and read other reports I was puzzled at the lack of info sometimes.

 

[mbedle]

The more that I think about it, I honestly think it's a skiing cultural difference as to why Vails snow reports are so lackluster compared to what people have been historically used to seeing here in the East.

Out West just doesn't have the same variable weather and snow conditions as we have in the East. All that really matters out there is recent snowfall, acreage open and daily weather. It's either a powder day or mainly packed powder except for steeper terrain that can indeed get skied down to hardpack out there.

Here in the East people expect a bit more detail and snowmaking commentary is much more valuable not just for the day ahead, but even a few days out. People want to know what's getting resurfaced, what's being allowed to bump up, when they plan on making snow and opening a favorite trail for the season. In short, how the mountain is handling operations tends to build the stoke almost as much as what mother nature is doing. Essentially, a good snow report is a much more needed marketing tool here than it is out West. It's kind of silly NOT to have a little blurb written about what's going on at the mountain and link it up on social media.

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Very good point - I agree.

 

[The Sneak]

You would think that sort of nuance and context would not be overlooked, given the size of their east coast investments.

I mean, Sunapee was closed most of yesterday w a power outage but you had to go to friggin Instagram to find that out.


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[kendo]

Stowe's report has improved this year compared to last year. Embedding their Twitter feed into the trail report page has allowed them to real time update lift holds, parking capacity, etc. Including a small paragraph at the top of the daily report allows them to mention snowmaking activities, overall surface or weather/wind conditions, etc.

Note to Vail marketing: when the majority of your East coast customer base is living within a few 100' of sea level and not seeing any snow on the ground in month 3 of the season, the more you can promote mountain conditions, the better for your business.

 

[skicub]

“Most open terrain in the East” matters to people who can day trip anywhere in the East, those of us who live in Northern-Southern New England (I.e. Massholes). If I see that Killington has it up, I know that Vermont is likely where I should head. If it’s Sunday River/Loaf, I know New Hampshire and Maine are a better bet. It may seem trite, but it’s not JUST a marketing tactic if you dig below the surface.

Side note: trying to plan a day trip to Stowe last year was nearly impossible because of the lack of info on their Snow reports. The day I did make it up ended up being sort of shitty because I couldn’t keep an eye and plan accordingly. When I showed up, things were not going according to how their daily trail reports had been trending because of unexpected circumstances that could have been easily spelled out in a few sentences. Super Lame!


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[abc]

Side note: trying to plan a day trip to Stowe last year was nearly impossible because of the lack of info on their Snow reports. The day I did make it up ended up being sort of shitty because I couldn’t keep an eye and plan accordingly. When I showed up, things were not going according to how their daily trail reports had been trending because of unexpected circumstances that could have been easily spelled out in a few sentences. Super Lame!

Don't go to Stowe then.

If they don't promote the snow condition, skiers from the flat land will stop coming.

Now with the Peak purchase, many flatlanders have several mountain to choose from without taking the long drive to Stowe. When we do go, we only go when condition is excellent. If I don't know, I won't go.

They'll learn. The best part of Vail's Peak purchase is they're now competing against each other in the northeast.

 

[BenedictGomez]

You would think that sort of nuance and context would not be overlooked, given the size of their east coast investments.

Yeah, I'm not buying that, Vail doesn't, "overlook" anything, it's intentional.

 

[deadheadskier]

Yeah, I'm not buying that, Vail doesn't, "overlook" anything, it's intentional.

Intentional for what? Cost savings?



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[puckoach]

While this site has a lot of pass holders, the majority of New England ski days are from ticket purhasers. Who have optional hill choices. Not that they change easily. But, do so over time.

Much of this is full pay.

They will learn that a marketing savings on accurate reports will cost them. (IMHO)

 

[xlr8r]

I like an honest writeup snow report but a lot of them are just PR BS. Looking at Mount Snow's report this morning after all the problems they have had this week with icing, lifts down, lightning, crowds, etc the snow report starts off with "So far 2020 has brought us an inch of snow-- I'd say we're off to a good start." The snow report does get into the lift issues further on, but that first line must feel like a slap in the face to customers that have been suffering there this week. https://www.mountsnow.com/ski-ride/snow-report/

 

[Orca]

Mountain snow reports have evolved into marketing spin with the good news exaggerated and the bad news suppressed. It's a sort of lightweight deception they seem all too willing to perpetrate. It is a matter of degree, but the more resorts spin the report, the more they erode reader trust. They are trading their long-term reputation for short-term gain, and it is weakly justified by the "everyone is doing it" excuse.

 

[kbroderick]

Mountain snow reports have evolved into marketing spin with the good news exaggerated and the bad news suppressed. It's a sort of lightweight deception they seem all too willing to perpetrate. It is a matter of degree, but the more resorts spin the report, the more they erode reader trust. They are trading their long-term reputation for short-term gain, and it is weakly justified by the "everyone is doing it" excuse.

Evolved into?

I'm not that old, but I still can't recall a time when you didn't need to take at least a couple of inches off the top of most snow reports.

I think that overall, there's less BS in snow reporting now than there was 20 years ago. Information on conditions is more readily available from third-party sources (especially instagram/FB), and while that may not help when you're trying to make a 6 a.m. decision on where to go—or whether to go to work or call in—it's not all that hard to figure out if Mountain A tends to be relatively accurate or not (and they probably will get called out on BS on social media, too).

I do agree with the second part of your comment, though, and there are places (MRG comes to mind) that take pride in being brutally honest and earn a lot of trust in the process.

 

[Orca]

Evolved into?

I'm not that old, but I still can't recall a time when you didn't need to take at least a couple of inches off the top of most snow reports.

I'm inclined to agree.