OppositeGeorge
Member
I wish I was outside skiing and creating hazards and potential liabilities rather than sitting on my duff, watching it rain and talking about it.
Word up.
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Everyone hates lawsuits against ski areas...
- Thread starter jaywbigred
- Start date
Word up.
jaywbigred
Active member
Agreed.
I only started the thread because I think law school made the world of tort law (and negligence liability) make sense to me to a high degree, and it frustrates me when it doesn't make such sense to others. There is logic to it, I swear!
Doctors concerned with malpractice insurance and skiers/boarders concerned with lift ticket prices are the two groups I have encountered that are most confounded by this logic I speak of...
ctenidae
Active member
I blame the insurance companies.
It's usually cheaper to settle than it is to defend even an easy case, so that's what happens. And even an easy case still has 12 potential nitwits who deam of being able to sue someone, too.
It's usually cheaper to settle than it is to defend even an easy case, so that's what happens. And even an easy case still has 12 potential nitwits who deam of being able to sue someone, too.
riverc0il
New member
Part of the reason law suits are so problematic in the ski industry is precedent. I think it was Sunday vs. Stratton that put precedent behind the plaintiff in frivolous cases involving skiers and riders injuring themselves due to natural terrain features that most people consider part of the inherent risk on the limited liability printed on the back of our lift tickets.
Should ski areas be held to a standard of safety? Absolutely. When it comes to employees, maintenance, lifts, grooming equipment, etc. there is a reasonable expectation that equipment should function and employees should not cause harm to guests. People injured due to running into trees, lift towers, other guests, etc. or injuries due to terrain and conditions are 100% suspect with exception of certain rare situations (e.g. a rope not being put up when a trail is a skating rink).
The other big issue is that even cases settled out of court cost huge lawyer fees to defend frivolous law suits. Who pays for those lawyers? We do. Often times for lame cases that lack merit. But every American has the right to hire a lawyer and sue someone.
Should ski areas be held to a standard of safety? Absolutely. When it comes to employees, maintenance, lifts, grooming equipment, etc. there is a reasonable expectation that equipment should function and employees should not cause harm to guests. People injured due to running into trees, lift towers, other guests, etc. or injuries due to terrain and conditions are 100% suspect with exception of certain rare situations (e.g. a rope not being put up when a trail is a skating rink).
The other big issue is that even cases settled out of court cost huge lawyer fees to defend frivolous law suits. Who pays for those lawyers? We do. Often times for lame cases that lack merit. But every American has the right to hire a lawyer and sue someone.
ski_resort_observer
Active member
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Being in the ski resort business for 20+ years I can tell you that for every lawsuit you read about there are many more that you don't.
As mentioned they are mostly liability cases where the attorney gets a 50/50 cut. I think the lawsuits that we talk about here are perceived as frivilous but as it was pointed it's a somewhat nebulus concept that only a judge determines.
The lawsuit against Powdr by the couple who spent a bunch of money for their lifetime passes I think about 10 years ago was a frivilous lawsuit IMHO. They admitted in an interview on WCAX that they didn't think they had much of a chance of winning but found a good lawyer to sue for them so they determined they had nothng to lose. I am assuming they would be paying their attorney per hour for this one but don't really know. I don't remember if the case has been ruled on yet but I did read that Powdr is considering countersuing the couple for legal costs and Powdr's reduced financial ability to fund the snowmaking system.
In liability cases involving guests and the resorts, the resorts and their insurance companies fear a jury trial. If there is any chance of the lawsuits path headed that way the resorts/insurance companies will want to settle. Frivilous or not. I found this very frustrating as in the incidents I knew about I didn't personally believe the resort was at fault.
As several have pointed out you have to look at on a case by case basis. If a resort was negligent then of course they should be able to sue. I think most here believe that.
If it does end up in front of a jury, pretty rare for ski resort lawsuits, IMHO it can come down to the qualitly of the attorneys. A lawyer I got to know pretty well over the years out in Wyoming, Gerry Spence, was a master at playing to the jury and convincing the jury to come down onto his side.
As mentioned they are mostly liability cases where the attorney gets a 50/50 cut. I think the lawsuits that we talk about here are perceived as frivilous but as it was pointed it's a somewhat nebulus concept that only a judge determines.
The lawsuit against Powdr by the couple who spent a bunch of money for their lifetime passes I think about 10 years ago was a frivilous lawsuit IMHO. They admitted in an interview on WCAX that they didn't think they had much of a chance of winning but found a good lawyer to sue for them so they determined they had nothng to lose. I am assuming they would be paying their attorney per hour for this one but don't really know. I don't remember if the case has been ruled on yet but I did read that Powdr is considering countersuing the couple for legal costs and Powdr's reduced financial ability to fund the snowmaking system.
In liability cases involving guests and the resorts, the resorts and their insurance companies fear a jury trial. If there is any chance of the lawsuits path headed that way the resorts/insurance companies will want to settle. Frivilous or not. I found this very frustrating as in the incidents I knew about I didn't personally believe the resort was at fault.
As several have pointed out you have to look at on a case by case basis. If a resort was negligent then of course they should be able to sue. I think most here believe that.
If it does end up in front of a jury, pretty rare for ski resort lawsuits, IMHO it can come down to the qualitly of the attorneys. A lawyer I got to know pretty well over the years out in Wyoming, Gerry Spence, was a master at playing to the jury and convincing the jury to come down onto his side.
andyzee
New member
Holy chit, jerry said something smart!
I agree 100% There is an inherint risk in skiing, however, that is not an excuse for neglegance on the part of the resort. And Jerry, before you get all pissed, remember, I still owe your a beer. Or did you owe me a beer?OppositeGeorge
Member
Dude, you are such an optimist.
The great thing about this country is everybody thinks they understand the law when almost nobody really does. I'm not a lawyer, but I've got a background in finance including business ethics, plus I dated a member of the NY Bar for five years. What right does that give me to comment on the law? Absolutely none, but I think I picked up just enough knowledge by osmosis to cringe when I see some of the more questionable opinions put forward by armchair attorneys.
Anyway, the reason you're an optimist is because I have to hold myself back whenever a thread like this comes up because I'm so beaten down I've given up any hope of educating anybody. You obviously, still hold out hope that the public can be set straight and for that, counselor, I salute you.:flag:
:flag:God save the United States and this honorable site!:flag:
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