Everyone shut up

[snoseek]

I for one have done little bitching over the new ownership, but I do not like what they are doing to this point. However I disagree with AdironRider, if people don't like something they should be as vocal as possible about it, especially if they believe an injustice is being done. Overall in these times, I am seeing too much of this complacent mentallity forming:

Your post makes the most sense to me. Some folks bitch for the sake of bitching....but many have valid points, and are passionate about what may happen at their local hill, nothing wrong with stating an opinion.

 

[JD]

Skiing is free. Lifts cost money.

 

[Terry]

Skiing in the backcountry is free. Sking at resorts costs a lot for snowmaking, grooming, staff, and mega insurance coverage, fuel, and electricity. That is why the ticket prices are getting out of hand. But there are still deals to be had if you look around.

 

[billski]

Lets stop the whole, why cant resorts charge me next to nothing for skiing, or why cant I hike and ski Killington for free when I wont give them a dime during regular season type threads. We get it, your cheap and feel your entitled to special deals.

I said it in another thread, its stupid how everyone is critical of resorts for trying to maximize the money in their pockets when your trying to do the exact same thing by hiking Kmart to ski their snowmaking for free, or being critical of a legitimate mtn (ala Stowe) charging the most in the east.

Is skiing, its always been expensive. Its November, youll get out soon, so chill the F out.

Telling people to "shut up" is a very dangerous strategy in what is ostensibly a public, democratic forum. It's not much different than going into a bar; there will always be the bellyacher (and I will admit succumbing to this behavior here). It is far more effective to "vote with your feet." Nobody is forcing you to read every thread. I for one ignore the weather threads by and large. While I find some discussions (at many forums I frequent) annoying, I respect people's right to discuss, even though it may be un-factual, full of opinion, ignorant or any other adjective of your liking.

If a topic comes up that annoys you and it gets lots of attention, then clearly more than one person is interested in discussing or complaining. Welcome to the world. If a topic is raised and nobody responds, that is clearly a much more effective way to squelch the discussion.

Specifically, I find the whole discussion about pricing to be quite intriguing. While many people (including me) complain, it's also enlightening and educational. Many interesting facts begin to emerge when you separate the wheat from the chaff in what is typically a discussion held behind closed management doors. The fact that the internet, and specifically fourms like this create much more resort transparency, and the ability to readily compare resorts quickly, is a vast improvement over when I begin skiing in '76. By the way, I'll complain about oil prices too, but I can't readily discern the difference between gasoline in '69 and today, while I can more easily see the ski industry changes and debate them.

Lastly, don't forget there is a feedback system going on here. Many "industry reps" lurk at this and other forums. While opinions expressed here may only represent 1% of the general skiing public, I am quite certain they are factored in. Many other skiers lurk here and make decision based on facts and opinions expressed here. For a resort to be sensitive to what is being said in a high-profile forum is important. Look at the resorts that play with the AZ Challenge, or Win at Sugarbush extending offers to the group. If this group didn't have some credibility in the community, you wouldn't see such participation.

If we begin to censor on-topic, unoffensive but grating whining, we begin to create a dictatorship over acceptable topics. If that happens, I can assure you that the breadth and diversity of the forum (which are its strength today) will be perceived to be a closed club and participation diminish significantly.

 

[Geoff]

I complain but not about pricing. Between property tax, condo fees, automobile expenses, and utilities, the amount of money I fork over to the ski resort is lost in the noise.

From where I sit, if nobody offers lift-serviced skiing deep into May this year, it's catastrophic. I'm far less concerned about not getting as many white ribbon of death laps in early November as usual. If it turns out Sunday River picks up the torch for spring skiing, I'll be selling at Killington and cutting 30 miles off my drive. If Sugarbush does it instead, I'll relocate 45 miles up Route 100 and add 30 minutes of drive time. It's not complaining. It's my plan of record.

 

[hammer]

People have the right to complain...

People have the right to complain about people complaining...

As long as it's just a little :argue: and and it doesn't get to :uzi: and :flame:then it's OK IMO.

As many have said, once we get the and everyone's gone then we'll all be nicer...I think. :???:

 

[2knees]

The % of emoticons to text in that post is pretty impressive.

 

[dmc]

It's funny when you think about it...

Complaining about complaining...

 

[tcharron]

People have the right to complain...

People have the right to complain about people complaining...

As long as it's just a little :argue: and and it doesn't get to :uzi: and :flame:then it's OK IMO.

As many have said, once we get the and everyone's gone then we'll all be nicer...I think. :???:

:blink:

OMG, you just ran up the emoticon bill for AlpineZone! Man, Gregs gonna be pieed at yooooooouuuuu..

 

[wa-loaf]

:blink:

OMG, you just ran up the emoticon bill for AlpineZone! Man, Gregs gonna be pieed at yooooooouuuuu..

You gotta pay for emoticons?

Jeeze, pay me a few bucks and I'll make some up that are royalty free.

 

[JimG.]

Jim I argued with ya. bitching is over, we is making turns.:grin:

You're funny.

I was talking about the folks who agreed with me. Back then it was me and threecy against the mob of discontent.

And there was alot discussed in those threads. It's amazing how the topic keeps spinning off threads.

No more stirring needed.

 

[JD]

Skiing at resorts is free. Riding their lift, and appearently emoticons, cost money.
Man made snow costs money. Lodges cost money. Valet services cost money. but skiing is free.

 

[Phildozer]

Telling people to "shut up" is a very dangerous strategy in what is ostensibly a public, democratic forum.

Democratic? We're an anarcho-syndicist commune, we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

 

[Vortex]

You're funny.

I was talking about the folks who agreed with me. Back then it was me and threecy against the mob of discontent.

And there was alot discussed in those threads. It's amazing how the topic keeps spinning off threads.

No more stirring needed.

I knew that, just seeing if you were paying attention.

 

[AdironRider]

I have no problem with complaints or constructive criticism, but there reaches a point where the mob mentality kicks in and people cross a certain "line". Ive noticed this primarily with pretty much every Killington thread and lift ticket cost thread. Sure everyone wants something cheaper, but if you sit down and think about it, there are legitimate reasons for what resorts are doing. I dont see any reason why Killington shouldnt be allowed to try and preserve their product. They drop millions a year on snowmaking, so when they see a bunch of freeloaders trying to earn their turns, I can see the reasons why they would try and prevent it. They havent even been that unreasonable in their methods, everyone's just pissed because theyre doing it. Putting up a sign and having an ambassador come talk to you is really not that big a deal. They havent revoked a pass, or arrested everyone. This isnt unique to Killington either, Sugarbush has the same policy in effect. The only reason its a big deal at Killington is because it used to be alot cheaper to ski/ride there in the past (a facet which as seen in the ultimate demise of ASC, was not sustainable).

 

[bobbutts]

Telling people to "shut up" is a very dangerous strategy in what is ostensibly a public, democratic forum. It's not much different than going into a bar; there will always be the bellyacher (and I will admit succumbing to this behavior here). It is far more effective to "vote with your feet." Nobody is forcing you to read every thread. I for one ignore the weather threads by and large. While I find some discussions (at many forums I frequent) annoying, I respect people's right to discuss, even though it may be un-factual, full of opinion, ignorant or any other adjective of your liking.

If a topic comes up that annoys you and it gets lots of attention, then clearly more than one person is interested in discussing or complaining. Welcome to the world. If a topic is raised and nobody responds, that is clearly a much more effective way to squelch the discussion.

Specifically, I find the whole discussion about pricing to be quite intriguing. While many people (including me) complain, it's also enlightening and educational. Many interesting facts begin to emerge when you separate the wheat from the chaff in what is typically a discussion held behind closed management doors. The fact that the internet, and specifically fourms like this create much more resort transparency, and the ability to readily compare resorts quickly, is a vast improvement over when I begin skiing in '76. By the way, I'll complain about oil prices too, but I can't readily discern the difference between gasoline in '69 and today, while I can more easily see the ski industry changes and debate them.

Lastly, don't forget there is a feedback system going on here. Many "industry reps" lurk at this and other forums. While opinions expressed here may only represent 1% of the general skiing public, I am quite certain they are factored in. Many other skiers lurk here and make decision based on facts and opinions expressed here. For a resort to be sensitive to what is being said in a high-profile forum is important. Look at the resorts that play with the AZ Challenge, or Win at Sugarbush extending offers to the group. If this group didn't have some credibility in the community, you wouldn't see such participation.

If we begin to censor on-topic, unoffensive but grating whining, we begin to create a dictatorship over acceptable topics. If that happens, I can assure you that the breadth and diversity of the forum (which are its strength today) will be perceived to be a closed club and participation diminish significantly.

really good post

 

[Phildozer]

The only reason its a big deal at Killington is because it used to be alot cheaper to ski/ride there in the past (a facet which as seen in the ultimate demise of ASC, was not sustainable).

Taking the idea one step further, Killington for years was essentially selling dollars for 85 cents. Having been there last April, I was entirely underwhelmed with the physical condition of the facilities but that's what happens when a business defers upkeep in order to keep market share.

 

[snowmonster]

Democratic? We're an anarcho-syndicist commune, we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

Ah...a Monty Python fan in our midst. Skiing is free but Python fans pay double. =)