Flat ski vs. System

[riverc0il]

This begs the question, do system binding HAVE to be so heavy? Again, never tried em, but this seems to be a common complaint.

Ah yes, the weight factor. I forgot to include that in my post above but it is significant. Similar to how a ski feels heavier with a demo binding. The toe and heel pieces are similar to a regular binding, but systems usually have components (often a plate/riser) connecting all the parts together and at the least needs components to make the binding attach to the ski. Volkl does this with rails. All of these parts add up and add weight.

Good point was made that you don't have to redrill. Like demo bindings, this is helpful if you are buying used and will save you the time and effort to redrill at the cost of no binding choice and more weight.

 

[highpeaksdrifter]

Ah yes, the weight factor. I forgot to include that in my post above but it is significant. Similar to how a ski feels heavier with a demo binding. The toe and heel pieces are similar to a regular binding, but systems usually have components (often a plate/riser) connecting all the parts together and at the least needs components to make the binding attach to the ski. Volkl does this with rails. All of these parts add up and add weight.

Good point was made that you don't have to redrill. Like demo bindings, this is helpful if you are buying used and will save you the time and effort to redrill at the cost of no binding choice and more weight.

Are suggesting that there is a difference between the bindings on todays demo skis and system bindings? I don't mean park skis and fats that have to be mounted flat.

 

[campgottagopee]

All the skis I purchased in the last 4 years have been system and honeslty I like it. The less decision making I need to do the better.

 

[jack97]

In that case, for that model ski, I'd prefer buying it flat. I wouldn't be buying a Legend 8000 to rail on groomers, so I'd prefer to choose my own bindings (either new or existing ones I already have).

Definite agree, I wouldn't buy a legend 8000 to go on groomers. The other consideration is once you get toward expert skis, the buyers get more fickle. A flat ski will give more options on binding vendors. In addition some vendors have different version of the same product; some have versions with lifters and rubber cushions for the park rats.

 

[thinnmann]

Isn't it great that we have a choice? I am still wondering why a shop can't just order both the system and flat versions and stock both.

I have an Atomic Metron m:EX with the Neox "system" (AKA "integrated binding") Yes, they are one heavy pair of skis when they have to be carried, but I don't really notice he weight difference when I ski them. They can rail on groomers and have been ok - but just ok - in 2 feet of western powder. I only recently noticed that they are sluggish in the bumps. That could be because I feel I have recently improved at skiing bumps, and also because I have picked up some really light Atomic 9.22s's (flat with light Fischer bindings) and Volant Zip Karv's that I can torque over bumps and in the air with a lot less effort.

Also, consider that your entire "system" includes your boots. I have some heavy Rossi's, but my son's Lange's are significantly lighter. If you include the boot factor in the "system" equation, that really makes the overall equipment performance picture more complex.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Isn't it great that we have a choice? I am still wondering why a shop can't just order both the system and flat versions and stock both.

Cause sometimes when you carry many brands, it gets very expensive to carry both. Especially if one version will just sit there and not sell, while the other sells very good.

I am not asking this only on the 8000, that is just one of the few that I remember reading about from the product catalog.

 

[tree_skier]

I voted for system even though the correct answer would have been Lifter as opposed to flat. A good plate allows the ski to flex more evenly and gives added leverage when laying them over.

 

[jack97]

I voted for system even though the correct answer would have been Lifter as opposed to flat. A good plate allows the ski to flex more evenly and gives added leverage when laying them over.

IMO, this is where a ski shop can add value; by catering to the market segment that wants options. Not only different binding vendors but also accessories, mounting position and so on.

Once a ski shop start pushing the integrated systems, they start playing into the margin game with online stores. A battle they will eventually lose.

 

[Brettski]

Both

My Dynastar Mogul Skis get titanium markers

My Pocket Rockets had to be a system I think

 

[thinnmann]

So I am reading March's Skiing magazine at lunch, and notice a short piece (page 30) about Blizzard IQ system on their freeride skis that can take alpine, Marker Duke AT and tele bindings. "This means you can buy one pair of skis for alpine skiing, alpine touring, and telemarking."

 

[riverc0il]

Are suggesting that there is a difference between the bindings on todays demo skis and system bindings? I don't mean park skis and fats that have to be mounted flat.

Not sure where you were going with this question? My statement was in reference to the fact that both systems and demo bindings weight more than their flat mount counter parts. Demo systems do not have the same performance characteristics as integrated systems to the best of my knowledge. But they both carry similar weight penalties relative to non-system counter parts.

 

[Hawkshot99]

Demo systems do not have the same performance characteristics as integrated systems to the best of my knowledge. But they both carry similar weight penalties relative to non-system counter parts.

The K2's and Vokle's are the same performance wise as the production, just easier to adjust and weigh a bit more.

Rossi Does not have a demo binding on their system, or at least we don't use them, easy enough to adjust the production

*all this is system binding demos.*

 

[Rushski]

Could not vote, as I believe it depends on the type of ski.

Thin waisted carver - System
Midfat or wider - Flat

Just my .02