For those that crack on "seeded bumps"

[mondeo]

What's up with groomer hate? Some of my fovorite runs this season where ripping down some fresh cord early in the AM, arcing huge super g turns and feeling like I could reach out and touch the hill.

I like all types of terrain. One of my favorite parts of skiing though is the speed.

I don't think it's groomer hate, it's hate of excessive groomers. There just isn't a single run at Killington right now where you'd spend more than half of the vertical in the bumps.

 

[Rambo]

So be it. The groomed trail "experts" hate to face the truth.

My 1st generation shaped skis (Volant Supers) don't do so well in the bumps at 198cm but they still excell crusing the groomers.

 

[drjeff]

My 1st generation shaped skis (Volant Supers) don't do so well in the bumps at 198cm but they still excell crusing the groomers.

Knock 15-20cms off those and you'll have a real solid board for BOTH bumps and groomers! And with the extra width of the modern ski vs. a 1st generation shaped ski, you'll LOVE how it plows through the mashed potatoes that form in the afternoon sun!

 

[thetrailboss]

I think the Killington bump hayday was still going strong in the 90's. What I don't get is why there isn't a new breed of bump skiers out there. In the late 90's we saw the advent of shaped skis, allowing almost anyone to be able to carve pretty early on. Around the same time tree skiing and on map glades became popular and that's where the more advanced skiers seem to spend most of their time. It seems the brutal grooming became the norm as a result. Now with so few good bumps, less and less people know how to ski them so the mountains continue to overgroom. Vicious cycle really.

All true. There is a new breed of bump skiers...they're "freestyle" skiers who do bumps, rails, trees, etc. They're teenagers and college students.

I think that Mount Ellen's approach to easing folks into bump skiing by having low angle bumps, by and large, worked because folks could jump in and play on them when they wanted.

But you are missing the overall larger point and that is again because the resorts are a business, and because their business model is built around real estate and catering to the market that has the most disposable income, and that market, at least in their eyes is mainly the DINKs or baby boomers who statistically don't ski bumps. The target audience for Stratton, Okemo, and what Killington wants to be and has wanted to be after ASC turned the attention to real estate, are those who will buy real estate.

Edit: Geoff had chimed in before my response. Yes, Killington is selling day tickets, etc. But the focus over the past ten years or so with Killington has been trying to get the interconnect and the village built. You need to sell real estate for that.

Now SB plays a different game. SB would be quick to say that those who buy real estate are in fact subsidizing the rest of us who brown bag our lunches, ski trees and bumps, and want a long season. It's just that they have enough of a broad base of people to make it work...that is, enough die hards to buy passes, food, bev to prevent them from losing too much money.

 

[Greg]

What's up with groomer hate?

Puh-lease. :roll: No groomer martyrdom allowed here.

Groomers are everywhere. And bump skiers put up with ungroomed terrain getting smashed all season, and a lot of that is justified. In the spring, you might need to wait until 11 am, but on a sunny day bump runs are primed all afternoon. Leave them alone.

Bumps don't sell enough day tickets to justify dedicating all that many acres to them.

The folks an hour north of you must think otherwise. Screenshots of Ripcord from 4/25/08:

Organgrinder and Stein's looked the same. To me, that's spring skiing.

Mid 90's also borught the onset of the terrain park and the continued growth of the 1/2 pipe. That's the segement of this industry that's experiencing the rapid growth and that's where ALOT of the younger skiers are headed nowadays - park 1st, then maybe into some bumps or gates. Then *if* Mom and/or Dad went to the hill with little Johnny or Sally that day, Mom or Dad will often want buffed cord 12 lane wide groomers to make their 5 to 10 runs tops on that day while the kids are in the park with their friends.

As long as the parks/pipes are as popular as they currently are with the younger crowd, you're going to have a TOUGH time getting a sizeable base of the younger crowd into the bumps instead of the parks/pipes. That means that you'll then either need to get that younger skier/rider out of the park/pipe and into the bumps, which won't be an easy task by any means.

Probably spot on with all of this. And I don't know really what can be done about it, but I'm going to keep tooting the mogul horn until my knees give out for good.

 

[Rambo]

Knock 15-20cms off those and you'll have a real solid board for BOTH bumps and groomers! And with the extra width of the modern ski vs. a 1st generation shaped ski, you'll LOVE how it plows through the mashed potatoes that form in the afternoon sun!

Sounds Good! I'm going to check ebay for some K2 Recons or Explorers about 174cm or maybe Salomon Furys, Atomic Crimson Ti, Elan 888's or Fischer Watea 84's. I have demoed these on Demo days and found them all to be awesome.

 

[Greg]

I don't think it's groomer hate, it's hate of excessive groomers. There just isn't a single run at Killington right now where you'd spend more than half of the vertical in the bumps.

Right. Escapade is the only run with decent bumps. And that run is short, and the stretches of good bumps have breaks in them. In addition to Escapade, I'd like to see Cascade be left totally ungroomed top to bottom. Visibility from the K1 = no surprises. Downdraft, East Fall and shit Superstar for that matter could all be groomed flat for all I care. Bump skiers don't need 10 good trails of bumps. They need one trail of good bumps. East Fall could have been another good candidate.

 

[skiadikt]

Not that worried about it. But why is it closed if it's still skiable?

economics. run was fabulous last weekend and coverage getting there is fine. only prob is risk losing your pass ...

 

[eastcoastpowderhound]

Sounds Good! I'm going to check ebay for some K2 Recons or Explorers about 174cm or maybe Salomon Furys, Atomic Crimson Ti, Elan 888's or Fischer Watea 84's. I have demoed these on Demo days and found them all to be awesome.

If you're looking for something you'll want to take into the bumps, the only ski on that list that doesn't have 2 sheets of metal in it is the Watea 84. $.02

 

[Greg]

If you're looking for something you'll want to take into the bumps, the only ski on that list that doesn't have 2 sheets of metal in it is the Watea 84. $.02

Legend 8000s rule in the bumps. Little sidecut and enough width underfoot to be good when they get slushy.

 

[thetrailboss]

Asked:

The folks an hour north of you must think otherwise. Screenshots of Ripcord from 4/25/08:

Organgrinder and Stein's looked the same. To me, that's spring skiing.

Answered:

Now SB plays a different game. SB would be quick to say that those who buy real estate are in fact subsidizing the rest of us who brown bag our lunches, ski trees and bumps, and want a long season. It's just that they have enough of a broad base of people to make it work...that is, enough die hards to buy passes, food, bev to prevent them from losing too much money.

We've been going round and round on this [harsh] fact on SkiMRV as to why Clay Brookers get certain perks that others dont't. Harsh reality is that they subsidize the rest of us.

 

[drjeff]

Puh-lease. :roll: No groomer martyrdom allowed here.

Groomers are everywhere. And bump skiers put up with ungroomed terrain getting smashed all season, and a lot of that is justified. In the spring, you might need to wait until 11 am, but on a sunny day bump runs are primed all afternoon. Leave them alone.

There's NO WAY Greg could have groomer hate. Without them, he wouldn't have seeded bumps and would have to ski real bumps :lol: :lol:

 

[deadheadskier]

Stein's, Organgrinder, Ripcord, Spills, Paradise. I've always said Killington is my day trip limit. Might need to rethink that.

For what it's worth Steins was all push piles on the 29th when I was skiing it with rivercoil, some of the others you have listed had this issue as well. Hopefully this won't be the case on the 26th.

Outside of Castlerock, Mt. Ellen is where the best bumps are fo sho.

 

[SKidds]

There's NO WAY Greg could have groomer hate. Without them, he wouldn't have seeded bumps and would have to ski real bumps :lol: :lol:

I've always wondered what happens when you take the seeded bump skier out of the artificial field and put him on something like Steins or National (or name your fave steep big mountian mogul run) with VW sized bumps au naturale. I'll readily admit I ski natural bumps better than a seeded field (bump or bust 2 was proof enough ot that!), because that is what I'm used to. The skiing is totally different. I also think the transition from natural to seeded with a little practice would be easier to make than the other way around. Frankly, with perfect lines and uniform bumps, a seeded mogul field is easier to ski in general. To ski the zipper line fast and throw some airs in......totally different story. Do you seed bumpers find it harder or easier to tackle a natural mogul field?

Seeded bumps = implants. I'll take real ones any day.

 

[GrilledSteezeSandwich]

I like widely spaced bumps..I feel more comfortable skiing fast through them and carve more than skid..

 

[SkiDork]

I've always wondered what happens when you take the seeded bump skier out of the artificial field and put him on something like Steins or National (or name your fave steep big mountian mogul run) with VW sized bumps au naturale. I'll readily admit I ski natural bumps better than a seeded field (bump or bust 2 was proof enough ot that!), because that is what I'm used to. The skiing is totally different. I also think the transition from natural to seeded with a little practice would be easier to make than the other way around. Frankly, with perfect lines and uniform bumps, a seeded mogul field is easier to ski in general. To ski the zipper line fast and throw some airs in......totally different story. Do you seed bumpers find it harder or easier to tackle a natural mogul field?

Seeded bumps = implants. I'll take real ones any day.

I agree. I keep telling Iceman he has to practice on natural bumps more. In natural there's a lot more thinking involved, you're constantly adjusting your line because its not a perfect line all the way down.

 

[thetrailboss]

I agree. I keep telling Iceman he has to practice on natural bumps more. In natural there's a lot more thinking involved, you're constantly adjusting your line because its not a perfect line all the way down.

+ 1.

 

[mondeo]

I agree. I keep telling Iceman he has to practice on natural bumps more. In natural there's a lot more thinking involved, you're constantly adjusting your line because its not a perfect line all the way down.

+2. One of the reasons I enjoy natural bumps more is because they force you to actually think, unlike seeded runs where you just ski the line. Keeps things interesting.

 

[Greg]

There's NO WAY Greg could have groomer hate. Without them, he wouldn't have seeded bumps and would have to ski real bumps :lol: :lol:

I've always wondered what happens when you take the seeded bump skier out of the artificial field and put him on something like Steins or National (or name your fave steep big mountian mogul run) with VW sized bumps au naturale. I'll readily admit I ski natural bumps better than a seeded field (bump or bust 2 was proof enough ot that!), because that is what I'm used to. The skiing is totally different. I also think the transition from natural to seeded with a little practice would be easier to make than the other way around. Frankly, with perfect lines and uniform bumps, a seeded mogul field is easier to ski in general. To ski the zipper line fast and throw some airs in......totally different story. Do you seed bumpers find it harder or easier to tackle a natural mogul field?

Seeded bumps = implants. I'll take real ones any day.

I do just fine on natural moguls. Sundown seeds differently. They're just little piles plopped around. Sort of "suggestions" on where to turn as the field gets skied in. Course-like seeded runs are indeed a bit easier. Less thought in terms of line selection, just right-left-right-left. Fun for ripping through, but I like a bit more variability here and there. I do think the overall direct line (A&E) technique that one might learn in a perfect seeded field or course is the same you use in a natural bump field. The only difference is the ability to select new lines as they change. I don't think that is as hard a concept to figure out that most people claim it is. If you're looking ahead and you know what to look for in terms of line selection, it shouldn't be any surprise when a line in a natural bump field vaporizes. When that happens, I usually just hop up onto a big bump and quickly scan for the next string of bumps and go for it.

As far as big VW bumps on really steep pitches. I suck at them. I tend to get sucked into the troughs which can be punishing. It also forces me to do more sweeping cut turns to scrub speed. I'm really a trough bump skier which is why I prefer tight medium sized bumps on moderate pitches. I really need to learn to trough hop better on the steeper bigger bumps. Just a confidence issue.

 

[SkiDork]

As far as big VW bumps on really steep pitches. I suck at them. I tend to get sucked into the troughs which can be punishing.

you got that right. One of Icemans team-mates Dads, who's good friends with the Hammer keeps showing him how to stay out of the troughs on those big OL bumps. You can actually see him using the techinque on his latest comp from last weekend somewhat...