FTO News Item: Rumors Fly Regarding Pending Sale of ASC Resorts

[andyzee]

News flash! Okemo is buying Killington. When asked about their plans for Killington, Tim Mueler answered the first thing that needs to be done is install all new snow making equipment and a fleet of new groomers to groom all trails to perfection. He also announced plans for new high rise condos in what is presently the K1 parking lot. The Snowshed area is to be turned into a town square/shopping center same as can be found at Stratton. Parking will now be in the new multilevel parking garage to be built at the intersection of the Killington Access Rd and Rt. 4. Other highlight of new plans for Killington are:

* Guarenteed skiing from Thanksgiving to April 15th

* New Season Pass rates of $1500. Season passes will be good at both Killington and Okemo.

* Monthly and seasonal rates at parking garage for a 50-70 percent saving over daily rates.



All made up, but watch what you wish for. :-(

 

[millerm277]

@Andyzee

Be careful what you wish for is true, but...given the way things are heading, I say that it would be worth the risk.

 

[awf170]

Just out of curiosity what current pass holder would think of this:

Try to return the ski area to its former glory. Care about skiing. Have skiing from Oct. to June. Fix up diaster intersections. Limit lift capacity. Etc.

But... in return season passes would be high again. Given energy costs and inflation that would probably be around $1500.

Why not try to make the ski area like it was before? It worked extremely well then, why wouldn't it now?

 

[roark]

Just out of curiosity what current pass holder would think of this:

Try to return the ski area to its former glory. Care about skiing. Have skiing from Oct. to June. Fix up diaster intersections. Limit lift capacity. Etc.

But... in return season passes would be high again. Given energy costs and inflation that would probably be around $1500.

Why not try to make the ski area like it was before? It worked extremely well then, why wouldn't it now?

I would hope it wouldn't cost quite that much...:blink:

 

[andyzee]

@Andyzee

Be careful what you wish for is true, but...given the way things are heading, I say that it would be worth the risk.

I don't know, this mediocre season, I've gotten 20 days of skiing in so far 18 in Killington, of those at least 16 have been very good. The last 3 weekends were very good powder days. And for this I have paid $420 per season pass. With the money I save I could go to other mountains such as oh I don't know, let's say MRG. Were snow making and grooming is virtually non existent, the best terrain is reached by a single chair, and season pass prices are $699-$899 depending on when you buy them.

 

[thebigo]

Just out of curiosity what current pass holder would think of this:

Try to return the ski area to its former glory. Care about skiing. Have skiing from Oct. to June. Fix up diaster intersections. Limit lift capacity. Etc.

But... in return season passes would be high again. Given energy costs and inflation that would probably be around $1500.

Why not try to make the ski area like it was before? It worked extremely well then, why wouldn't it now?

You talk to most of the people around k and this is the concensus best option.

I dont know the answer, none of us really do but the fact remains that with killingtons terrain, infastructure, location, apres ski and history it should be the definitive number 1 in the east. There will always be people that tear down number one but when your most loyal skiers, management and staff included, realize the decline then its time for a change. Killington has slipped and to me that slip happened when they abondoned the 'beast of the east philosophy and started to chase okemo in the family market.

The ticket price should be dictated by operations, not the other way around. Put the best product you can out there and then charge what you need to maintain it.

 

[thebigo]

I would hope it wouldn't cost quite that much...

I agree that $1500 is a bit much, at that price I would go elsewhere ... but would I be willing to pay an extra $100 - $200 for snowmaking on the fiddle and ovation, a functioning srt, memorial day on superstar, bronco? I sure would and so would the rest of my crew



Does anybody in the east actaully charge $1500 for a pass?

 

[awf170]

The ticket price should be dictated by operations, not the other way around. Put the best product you can out there and then charge what you need to maintain it.

I agree.

I agree that $1500 is a bit much, at that price I would go elsewhere ... but would I be willing to pay an extra $100 - $200 for snowmaking on the fiddle and ovation, a functioning srt, memorial day on superstar, bronco? I sure would and so would the rest of my crew



Does anybody in the east actaully charge $1500 for a pass?

Stowe:
Adult (18-64) $1,255$1,570

Killington would have almost 3 more months of skiing. So when you think of it that way it doesn't seem so ridiculious.


The number one thing in my mind is to not cheap out of things to save money in the short run. Run all important chairs midweek, make snow whenever the temps allow no matter what time of year it is. Keep everything maintained, and so on.

 

[andyzee]

Okemo top pass price $1,482.94
Stratton $1,399.00

 

[millerm277]

The number one thing in my mind is to not cheap out of things to save money in the short run. Run all important chairs midweek, make snow whenever the temps allow no matter what time of year it is. Keep everything maintained, and so on.

Exactly......I want to see the SRT open more at Killington, their other lift practices are pretty good (except for completely ignoring the Outpost Double at Pico)

 

[Birdman829]

Kind of disappointed that Sugarloaf wasn't mentioned as being possibly sold. We've been enduring ASCs crap for too long. Sugarloaf hasn't seen a capital improvement since they put in the Wiffletree Superquad. Unless you count cutting down a few trees to make a new park.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Let the Games begin

The games have already begun in a big way. Ski resort ownership has already seen alot of changes this season so far so this news is more like the 6th inning. The 9th should be mighty interesting.

 

[Edd]

Without the A41 pass I am screwed. Today was day #23 for me; not possible without that pass.

 

[riverc0il]

Without the A41 pass I am screwed. Today was day #23 for me; not possible without that pass.

get a pass somewhere else? perhaps your favorite mountain? threedom if you want more than one mountain?

 

[Vortex]

I'm curious what happens to the River. That is the only bread Winner left for ASC in the East. Can it handle supporting a corporate structure the way Killington seemed to? Will ASC just go away and sell off Sugarloaf and SR.

I still think the River is the Best Run place around. The only real issue I had was the early closing last year.(porbably not a local descision) They kept a message board up, they answer questions. Snow making and Grooming...... the Vibe.

You rarely hear negitive statements about the employees, quite the contrary. (Reservations dept Excluded I look at it as an extension of ASC, not the core of the River)
I hope they still offer some kind of discount pass next
season. I use it as an alternate to my threedom pass. If they don't I'll have 1 pass next year only.

Another view is what happens to the employees?.... Some just work hard and know are in flux. I have been through this before. At the very least I hope the majority of the River crew stays around. I have not had as much fun skiing since I was a kid. ie recent River experiences

I have got to know the River and its people, both skiers and emplopyees. Class deal.

 

[Goblin84]

Kind of disappointed that Sugarloaf wasn't mentioned as being possibly sold. We've been enduring ASCs crap for too long. Sugarloaf hasn't seen a capital improvement since they put in the Wiffletree Superquad. Unless you count cutting down a few trees to make a new park.

I hear you on that one. I am not a big fan of that park... sugarloaf is still my favorite place to ski thought. their time will come. Ive heard rumors going around about the loaf...but i wont be one to start spreading until i hear something solid

 

[drjeff]

i think peak resorts would be in for severe culture shock by purchasing one of the big boys. these large destination resorts are completely different ball games from what peak resorts has done best, which is high capacity and high efficiency local and learn to ski small hills close to population centers. they would have to deal with real estate, destination skiers, mountains that don't fit their MO, and a host of other issues. i welcome change but the peak boys will need to alter their approach to run a place like snow, i would think.

Some of these issues wouldn't quite be the case with a Peaks/MS/ Attitash purchase.

First off, it will be interesting to see IF the deal goes through if it's just for the ski area or ski area + real estate since ASC ski areas and ASC real estate are run as independent entities under the same parent corp.

Secondly, both Mt Snow and Attitash currently have rather limited real estate development potential, as a substantial amount of both are built out already and you have forest service land limitations too.

If Peaks bought them, they'd buy a couple of bigger names, with loyal followings, solid ski visit numbers and mainly needing some infastructure upgrades. While on a sheer number, bigger projects than Crotched, relatively speaking simpler projects than Crotched with ALOT less initial name recognition marketing to do.

The Powdr/Killington+Pico deal would seem to be good fit too. If you look at what is argueably Powdr's flagship right now, Park City Mtn Resort(PCMR), it has many, many similiarities to Killington. It has a similar clientele, in that it has a solid core base, but relies alot on the shorter stay vacationers to sell alot of tickets, they have a very progressive parks/pipe program, and are contemplating an expansion to link with other mountains. PCMR sold off many of its base area development rights to an outside company(marriot), as K has contemplated and was attempting to do until the deal with Centex fell through.

While both would be substantial dollar purchases, the situations that Mt Snow/Attitash are in with respect to Peaks and K/pico with respect to Powdr have many similarities to those respective companies existing business plans.

On an asside, the K/powdr would be fun, then you could potentially bring your K pass out to Vegas :beer: :8):

 

[molecan]

I agree....they'd likely have others to make up for the loss.....the point I was making is that its likely that you'll still get a pretty good deal on a season pass...
M

There, I think you are dead wrong.
The average season pass price in the northeast starts at $500 and goes up to well over $1k.

For one mountain.

ASC may still offer a season pass option for Sunday River and Sugarloaf, or it will simply go back to the way it was in the 70's and 80's.

Now, I dont ski Killington/Snow much, and I've never been to Pico, but Killington is _still_ more often than not an early/late season's only option.

Sure there are better mountains in New England, but I dont ski them anywhere near as often, due to cost, distance, etc.

Attitash may not be grand, but it is about 10 mins from my family's house, and I do appreciate skiing there on a day where we dont want to drive an hour over to Sunday River.

Attitash being in the black (as far as friends who work there claim), as well as their rebranding w/a new logo, dropping Bear Peak from the name, the new condo development, etc had convinced me long ago that they were attempting to sell it off.

This rumour as stated, will have a large financial impact on me, and I imagine many others.
This will make a serious dent in my ability to go skiing every weekend. Affordably. Gone would be the option of going to another state due to snowfall, etc.

Being able to buy a pass for me and my wife for $700 combined and be able to ski across three states is a great deal, one that I knew would not last forever, and will be very sorry to see go.

 

[SkiDog]

There, I think you are dead wrong.
The average season pass price in the northeast starts at $500 and goes up to well over $1k.

For one mountain.

ASC may still offer a season pass option for Sunday River and Sugarloaf, or it will simply go back to the way it was in the 70's and 80's.

Now, I dont ski Killington/Snow much, and I've never been to Pico, but Killington is _still_ more often than not an early/late season's only option.

Sure there are better mountains in New England, but I dont ski them anywhere near as often, due to cost, distance, etc.

Attitash may not be grand, but it is about 10 mins from my family's house, and I do appreciate skiing there on a day where we dont want to drive an hour over to Sunday River.

Attitash being in the black (as far as friends who work there claim), as well as their rebranding w/a new logo, dropping Bear Peak from the name, the new condo development, etc had convinced me long ago that they were attempting to sell it off.

This rumour as stated, will have a large financial impact on me, and I imagine many others.
This will make a serious dent in my ability to go skiing every weekend. Affordably. Gone would be the option of going to another state due to snowfall, etc.

Being able to buy a pass for me and my wife for $700 combined and be able to ski across three states is a great deal, one that I knew would not last forever, and will be very sorry to see go.

Guess only time will tell....I know they sold a heck of a lot more from A41's passes then the EVER did $1000+ passes. You make up for lower cost by selling more passes....like buying at Costco...BULK.....Don't see why they'd go the other way and make it so less people bought...what do I know though....?

M

 

[thebigo]

I dont think any of us can accurately predict what would happen to pass prices IF this deal is completed.

I would miss the a41 big time, not just because of the price but also the flexibility.

I would probably end up at cannon with a higher percentage of day passes purchased at areas closer to southern nh (pats, crotched, ragged etc). While supporting the little/independant guy can definitely be seen as a positive there is another side of the coin.

I have been amazed at the number of social skiers that purchased bronze passes because their friends did. I can think of a few that are connected to my ski group that would never purchase a more expensive pass with less flexibility. I was at a party last month and ran into a couple guys that never skied that bought a bronze pass because a couple of their coworkers bought one and they all rented a condo together a few weekends a year to party. I think the loss of these people has to have a detrimental effect on the industry as a whole. You have to get people to visit your mountain atleast once before you have a chance at growing your sport and if the industry fails to increase the customer base they will continue to fight over a limited number of people and eat themsleves to death.

Incidentally, I think it is these pass holders from which most of the complaints stem. The question is how you get these people to the hill without detriment to the skiing experience for the rest of us.