FTO News Item: Rumors Fly Regarding Pending Sale of ASC Resorts

[millerm277]

Well, if another large company purchases them, then we may still see the season pass deals, just for different resorts....which would be fine with me.

 

[awf170]

Guess only time will tell....I know they sold a heck of a lot more from A41's passes then the EVER did $1000+ passes. You make up for lower cost by selling more passes....like buying at Costco...BULK.....Don't see why they'd go the other way and make it so less people bought...what do I know though....?

M

They would sell way more day tickets. Especially if they fixed the mountain up and made the season oct. to june again.


Also: Why would another company offer the same season pass deal. It didn't work for ASC. Why do the same thing if it doesn't work? Even with dirt cheap passes season visits still keep going down.

 

[andyzee]

Guess only time will tell....I know they sold a heck of a lot more from A41's passes then the EVER did $1000+ passes. You make up for lower cost by selling more passes....like buying at Costco...BULK.....Don't see why they'd go the other way and make it so less people bought...what do I know though....?

M

One thing to consider, if they sell Killington, there is less potential for passes being sold. Passes were sold through at all of ASCs mountains, with Killington being on it's own, that number goes down.

Know it's not going to happen, but I'd love if Sugarbush took them over. A pass good at both Sugarbush and Killington would be great, that I would be very willing to pay more for. Furthermore, I think Sugarbush is a really well run mountain.

 

[ALLSKIING]

One thing to consider, if they sell Killington, there is less potential for passes being sold. Passes were sold through at all of ASCs mountains, with Killington being on it's own, that number goes down.

Know it's not going to happen, but I'd love if Sugarbush took them over. A pass good at both Sugarbush and Killington would be great, that I would be very willing to pay more for. Furthermore, I think Sugarbush is a really well run mountain.

That would be a dream come true!!

 

[millerm277]

One thing to consider, if they sell Killington, there is less potential for passes being sold. Passes were sold through at all of ASCs mountains, with Killington being on it's own, that number goes down.

Maybe not, if K got bought by another big company, they could offer the same types of passes as ASC currently does.

 

[madskier6]

Maybe not, if K got bought by another big company, they could offer the same types of passes as ASC currently does.

I completely disagree. Powdr Corp, the potential buyer of K, owns several ski areas & they do not offer a season pass to any mountain comparable to K below $850. Why would they start doing it now? Also, as Austin pointed out, cheap passes hasn't worked for ASC so why would it work for the new owner?

I think if ASC sells these mountains, the days of cheap season passes are over. No one else but ASC offers cheap season passes for major mountains.

 

[Vortex]

Well depends on you major mountain explanation. Threedom pass(booth Creek) has a multi mountain passes at three tier pricing Waterville, Loon and Cranmore. anywhere from under $300 for mid week, Sunday and Non holdiay...$310 with 10 black outs. 529 anytime.

The Bode 1 at BW has been a great deal Nov to may skiing $499.

Alot of mountain have been doing interchangeable passes off and on. Ie Jay and Burke. Okemo and Sunapee (mangement by same folk anyway)

I'll wait and see.

 

[SkiDog]

It didn't work for ASC. .

Actually it did......they made a TON of cash on these...much more than back before when the passes were over $1000.00...ASC just failed EVERYWHERE else...

Killington is on the "chopping block" because its like the only resort in the ASC family that makes money. They have to sell of things to relieve debt...the A41 pass didn't hurt ASC at all..

M

 

[Greg]

No one else but ASC offers cheap season passes for major mountains.

I think they shot way too low with the price point on the A41. Many thought other ski areas would follow suit, but the A41 was so sharply discounted, no other ski areas even bothered. A price in the $600 range (for bronze) would have still been a pretty impressive deal, especially for 6 NE resorts. They may have sold slightly less, but I still think it would have been successful.

 

[Vortex]

I diagree totally Greg.

The purpose of the All4one was to get the day skiers to be commited to ASC. Boston and hartford markets. Get the day skier money up Front.

They were loosing day skiers to the threedom(booth creek) Sunday >Friday in the Mid $200 range. The day skiers were becoming Booth creek skiers not day skiers at other locations.

Booth Creek then came up with the $310 (10) black out day pass to compete with the all 4 one. Bronze and Silver

Asc was hoping IMO still to get the day skiers to come up and lodge at ASC as opposed to having Booth Creeks group just be tradition day skiers. 2 hours each way from Boston. 3 from Hartford area.

Just my view.

$600 for the bronze would not fly.

I think the bode 1 at BW $499 kind of shows how where the market it set. Just under The Threedom and a bit under the Gold. BW is competing for the ( postive vibe) with the early open and late season close that ASC was famous for.

Resorts like Stow , Sugarbush, Smuggs are further north and are a harder day trip. Sugarloaf would fall into this category as well. Pass prices higher . edit
Smuggs I checked is in the Same range as the Threedom and Bode 1..

 

[awf170]

Actually it did......they made a TON of cash on these...much more than back before when the passes were over $1000.00...ASC just failed EVERYWHERE else...

Yes, they sold a lot more season passes, but way less day tickets. Even with the dirt cheap season pass skier visits were way down.

 

[Vortex]

I think the soft winters had alot to do with that. Asc was not the only place suffering with a decrease in skier visits. The accouting of skier visits came up more than once.

I still think the casual 6 to 10 day skier had been pulled into the season pass market.

I skied maybe 10 days a year at a resort that was not booth creek before all the pass deals came out , ie spring into March & all4one. the deals were good enough for me to buy a 2nd pass. Not to mention.... We all get missed fairly regularly with scanners. Can't count a pass day of skiing if you don't scan.

 

[awf170]

I think the soft winters had alot to do with that. Asc was not the only place suffering with a decrease in skier visits. The accouting of skier visits came up more than once.

I'm not talking about the last few winter. I understand why last year was way down. I'm talking about it on a whole, from around 1980 to present. I'm not positve but weren't the 80's and 90's Killington's peak in skier visits and it has been going down ever since ASC bought it?

 

[Vortex]

Your right on then Austin.
I thought it was just the All4 one time frame you were speaking of. My mistake..

 

[Tin Woodsman]

Yes, they sold a lot more season passes, but way less day tickets. Even with the dirt cheap season pass skier visits were way down.

I can guarantee you that ASC's yield per skier visit decreased dramatically with the A41 pass. Stupidly priced.

It would be next to impossible for the next owner of K-Mart to run it as poorly as ASC has. Those guys just aren't that bright, and the ones that are can't make a dime's worth of difference with that debt load hanging over their head.

 

[2knees]

ahh the infamous A41 discussions. I gotta think they lost money on this. yeah, they sold a ton more passes then previously. It doesnt take a genius to guess that. but i would love to know at what cost to day ticket sales. Think about how many day ticket sales it takes to cover the cost of the a41. 350 is the bronze. the average killington ticket over the last 3 years figuring in the midweek discount is roughly in the 60 dollar range. I would be willing to bet alot of the people skiing 25 days on the a41 were probably skiing 10 days or so buying day tickets or ticket packages. Even if you adjust the price of a ticket down to $50 to take into account multiple day discounts, asc would still be losing $150 per person on that deal. What is tougher to guess is the amount of people that jumped on the pass cause it sounded like a good deal in the summer but then only skied a couple of times. This is pure speculation obviously, and i could be way off.

bottom line, if killington is sold, i would be shocked to see a $349 pass next year.

 

[Vortex]

The only thing I'm getting at is the Day skier is not the same anymore(at least on the East). With Asc, Booth Creek and Bretton woods..... Manny day skiers/ day ticket buyers are know pass holders and may not ever be day skiers without a pass again.

Fair to wait and See what the new resorts or new organizations will do, but I would bet if there are not more All4 one type deals. Bw and Booth Creek will sell more passes again. There is a market for cheap passes.

 

[andyzee]

If a new owner takes over Killington, ofcourse there is no way of predicting what will happen. The scnerio that would make most sense to me is to offer passes at higer prices $800-$1000 for new purchases, but still allow a deal for present pass holders up to a certain date. This way the shock of a rate increase would not be as bad, they would be able to hold on to old customers, and raise the prices gradually for present pass holders.

Of course the best scnerio would still be for Sugarbush to buy Killington, offer a pass that would be good for both mountains. I would buy that at the increased rate tomorrow! Win?:lol:

 

[thebigo]

Disclaimer: I have zero raw data to back this up

Since the inception of the a41's It seems as if more of the crowd has switched from midweek to the weekends. I would imagine that there is a target industry level of midweek/weekend visitor split. I would guess kmart is slipping further and further from this mark.

 

[Edd]

ahh the infamous A41 discussions. I gotta think they lost money on this. yeah, they sold a ton more passes then previously. It doesnt take a genius to guess that. but i would love to know at what cost to day ticket sales. Think about how many day ticket sales it takes to cover the cost of the a41. 350 is the bronze. the average killington ticket over the last 3 years figuring in the midweek discount is roughly in the 60 dollar range. I would be willing to bet alot of the people skiing 25 days on the a41 were probably skiing 10 days or so buying day tickets or ticket packages. Even if you adjust the price of a ticket down to $50 to take into account multiple day discounts, asc would still be losing $150 per person on that deal. What is tougher to guess is the amount of people that jumped on the pass cause it sounded like a good deal in the summer but then only skied a couple of times. This is pure speculation obviously, and i could be way off.

bottom line, if killington is sold, i would be shocked to see a $349 pass next year.

I ski the crap out of ASC mountains, and even though I'm saving big on lift ticket prices, I POUR money into skiing, with the bars, lunches, lodging,and stuff I buy at the mountain on the spur of the moment. The A41 pass gets me there to spend more money, and I'm sure I'm not alone here.