FYI on SL and SR ownership

[ski_resort_observer]

Going by the questions on the Ski Resort Challenge there are still several people who are confused over the ownership of the Loaf and SR. Boyne is the contracted operator, CNL Resort Properties actually owns them.
http://www.cnl.com/lifestyle/property_list.html

 

[Razor]

Looking at that list of CNL-owned properties, wouldn't a pass covering all the New England resorts be a great deal?

 

[thetrailboss]

Isn't that a leaseback deal?

 

[ski_resort_observer]

Yup...CNL has quietly become the largest by far biggest ski resort owner in NA.

TB....if memory serves Boyne did purchase both resorts from ASC then quickly sold them to CNL with Boyne being the operators. I guess that's a lease back deal. Perhaps Steve can enlighten us as to the details of the process and timeline of the deal. Remember Les Otten, Warren Cook et al were trying to buy the resorts as well.

 

[thetrailboss]

Right, but my understanding is that the "lease back" means that Boyne and the other folks are essentially paying down the mortgage to get the properties back. I could be wrong.

 

[ski_resort_observer]

This interview gives some insight to the relationship. He talks about SR and SL about halfway thru the article.
http://www.thebigskyweekly.com/node/93

 

[thebigo]

Right, but my understanding is that the "lease back" means that Boyne and the other folks are essentially paying down the mortgage to get the properties back. I could be wrong.

I do not believe this to be the case. CNL is a Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT). My understanding is that a REIT is essentially a mutual fund in that there are a large number of investors who hold a piece of CNL. CNL makes real estate investments and then essentially has a contract with various management entities. Boyne being one example. The contract allows Boyne to profit from operations but the REIT shareholders obtain the increased value of the real estate at maturation.

The advantage to boyne is increased liquidity and a tax shelter; the advantage to the REIT is the increasing value of the real estate with relatively low risk.

I was always curious as to who held the responsibility for major capital improvements (real property in legalese). More specifically who paid for the chondola.

Some info from wikipedia regarding REITs

A Real Estate Investment Trust or REIT (pronounced /ˈriːt/) is a tax designation for a corporation investing in real estate that reduces or eliminates corporate income taxes. In return, REITs are required to distribute 90% of their income, which may be taxable, into the hands of the investors. The REIT structure was designed to provide a similar structure for investment in real estate as mutual funds provide for investment in stocks.

Like other corporations, REITs can be publicly or privately held. Public REITs may be listed on public stock exchanges like shares of common stock in other firms.

REITs can be classified as equity, mortgage or hybrid.

The key statistics to look at in a REIT are its NAV (Net asset value), AFFO (Adjusted Funds From Operations) and CAD (Cash Available for Distribution). REITs face challenges from both a slowing economy and the global financial crisis, depressing share values by 40 to 70 percent in some cases.[1]

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_investment_trust

also some info from CNL literature obtained through sugarloaftoday.com

Under our articles of incorporation, we will automatically terminate and dissolve
on December 31, 2015, unless our common stock is listed on a national securities exchange or quoted on the
National Market System of the NASDAQ Stock Market. If our shares are listed or quoted by that time, we will
automatically become a company with no fixed termination date. In conjunction with, or prior to, listing, we
anticipate merging with our Advisor and becoming self-advised.
If our shares are not listed or quoted by December 31, 2015, we will sell our assets and distribute the Net
Sales Proceeds to our stockholders or we will merge with another entity in a transaction which provides our
stockholders with cash or the securities of a publicly traded company unless stockholders owning a majority of
our shares elect to extend the duration of CNL Lifestyle Properties by amending our articles of incorporation.

source: http://www.cnllifestylereit.com/pdf/prospectus.pdf

 

[thebigo]

Not sure how this is going to paste but a list of CNL properties is below

LOCATION OPERATOR OWNERSHIP
SKI & MOUNTAIN LIFESTYLE
Bretton Woods Bretton Woods, NH BW Resort Management 100%
Brighton Ski Resort Brighton, UT Boyne USA 100%
Crested Butte Mountain Resort Mt. Crested Butte, CO Triple Peaks 100%
Cypress Mountain British Columbia, Canada Boyne USA 100%
Gatlinburg Sky Lift Gatlinburg, TN Boyne USA 100%
Jiminy Peak Mountain Resort Hancock, MA Jiminy Peak Mountain Resort, LLC 100%
Loon® Mountain Resort Lincoln, NH Boyne USA 100%
Mount Sunapee Resort Newbury, NH Triple Peaks 100%
Mountain High Ski Resort Wrightwood, CA Mountain High Associates 100%
Northstar-at-Tahoe™ Resort Lake Tahoe, CA Booth Creek 100%
Okemo Mountain Resort Ludlow, VT Triple Peaks 100%
Sierra-at-Tahoe® Resort South Lake Tahoe, CA Booth Creek 100%
Sugarloaf Mountain Resort Carrabassett Valley, ME Boyne USA 100%
Summit-at-Snoqualmie Resort Snoqualmie Pass, WA Boyne USA 100%
Sunday River Resort Newry, ME Boyne USA 100%
The Village at Northstar Lake Tahoe, CA Booth Creek 100%
Village of Baytowne Wharf Destin, FL Intrawest ULC Majority*
Village at Blue Mountain Ontario, Canada Intrawest ULC Majority*
Village at Copper Mountain Copper Mountain, CO Intrawest ULC Majority*
Village at Mammoth Mountain Mammoth Lakes, CA Intrawest ULC Majority*
Village at Snowshoe Mountain Snowshoe, WV Intrawest ULC Majority*
Village at Stratton Stratton, VT Intrawest ULC Majority*
Whistler Creekside British Columbia, Canada Intrawest ULC Majority*
ATTRACTIONS
Camelot Park Bakersfield, CA PARC Management 100%
Darien Lake Buffalo, NY PARC Management 100%
Elitch Gardens Denver, CO PARC Management 100%
Fiddlesticks Fun Center Tempe, AZ PARC Management 100%
Frontier City Oklahoma City, OK PARC Management 100%
Funtasticks Fun Center Tucson, AZ PARC Management 100%
Grand Prix Tampa Tampa, FL PARC Management 100%
Great Wolf Lodge – Sandusky Sandusky, OH Great Wolf Resorts Majority*
Great Wolf Lodge –
Wisconsin Dells Wisconsin Dells, WI Great Wolf Resorts Majority*
Hawaiian Falls – Garland Garland, TX HFE Horizon 100%
Hawaiian Falls –
The Colony The Colony, TX HFE Horizon 100%
Wet'n'Wild Hawaii Kapolei, HI Village Roadshow Limited 100%
Magic Springs and
Crystal Falls Hot Springs, AR PARC Management 100%
Mountasia Family Fun Center North Richland, TX PARC Management 100%
Myrtle Waves Water Park Myrtle Beach, SC PARC Management 100%
Putt-Putt Fun Center Lubbock, TX PARC Management 100%
Putt-Putt Fun Center Raleigh, NC PARC Management 100%
Splashtown Houston, TX PARC Management 100%
WaterWorld Concord, CA PARC Management 100%
White Water Bay Oklahoma City, OK PARC Management 100%
Wild Waves & Enchanted Village Seattle, WA PARC Management 100%
Zuma Fun Center Charlotte, NC PARC Management 100%
Zuma Fun Center Knoxville, TN PARC Management 100%
Zuma Fun Center North Houston, TX PARC Management 100%
Zuma Fun Center South Houston, TX PARC Management 100%
GOLF COURSES
Ancala Country Club Scottsdale, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Arrowhead Country Club Glendale, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Arrowhead Golf Club Littleton, CO EAGLE Golf 100%
Bear Creek Golf Course Dallas, TX Billy Casper Golf 100%
Broad Bay Country Club Virginia Beach, VA Traditional Golf 100%
Canyon Springs Golf Club San Antonio, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
Clear Creek Golf Club Houston, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
Continental Golf Course Scottsdale, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Cowboys Golf Club Grapevine, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
David L. Baker Memorial Golf Course Fountain Valley, CA EAGLE Golf 100%
Deer Creek Golf Club Overland Park, KS EAGLE Golf 100%
Desert Lakes Golf Course Bullhead City, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Eagle Brook Country Club Geneva, IL EAGLE Golf 100%
Foothills Golf Club Phoenix, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Forest Park Golf Course St. Louis, MO EAGLE Golf 100%
Fox Meadow Country Club Medina, OH EAGLE Golf 100%
Golf Club at Fossil Creek Fort Worth, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
Hunt Valley Golf Club Phoenix, MD EAGLE Golf 100%
Kiskiack Golf Club Williamsburg, VA Traditional Golf 100%
Kokopelli Golf Club Gilbert, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Lake Park Golf Club Dallas-Fort Worth, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
LakeRidge Country Club Lubbock, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
Las Vegas Golf Course Las Vegas, NV EAGLE Golf 100%
Legend at Arrowhead Golf Resort Glendale, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
London Bridge Golf Course Lake Havasu, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Majestic Oaks Golf Club Ham Lake, MN EAGLE Golf 100%
Mansfield National Golf Club Dallas-Fort Worth, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
Meadowbrook Country Club Tulsa, OK EAGLE Golf 100%
Meadowlark Golf Course Huntington Beach, CA EAGLE Golf 100%
Mesa del Sol Golf Club Yuma, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Micke Grove Golf Course Lodi, CA EAGLE Golf 100%
Mission Hills Country Club Northbrook, IL EAGLE Golf 100%
Montgomery Country Club Laytonsville, MD Traditional Golf 100%
Painted Desert Golf Club Las Vegas, NV EAGLE Golf 100%
Painted Hills Golf Course Kansas City, KS EAGLE Golf 100%
Palmetto Hall Plantation Club Hilton Head, SC Heritage Golf Group 100%
Plantation Golf Club Dallas-Fort Worth, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
Raven Golf Club at South Mountain™ Phoenix, AZ I.R.I. Golf Group 100%
Royal Meadows Golf Course Kansas City, MO EAGLE Golf 100%
Ruffled Feathers Golf Club Lemont, IL EAGLE Golf 100%
Shandin Hills Golf Club San Bernardino, CA EAGLE Golf 100%
Signature Golf Club Solon, OH EAGLE Golf 100%
Stonecreek Golf Club Phoenix, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Superstition Springs Golf Club Mesa, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
Tallgrass Country Club Wichita, KS EAGLE Golf 100%
Tamarack Golf Club Naperville, IL EAGLE Golf 100%
Tatum Ranch Golf Club Cave Creek, AZ EAGLE Golf 100%
The Crossings Glen Allen, VA Traditional Golf 100%
The Golf Club at Cinco Ranch Houston, TX EAGLE Golf 100%
The Links at Challedon Golf Club Mount Airy, MD Traditional Golf 100%
Valencia Country Club Santa Clarita, CA Heritage Golf Group 100%
Weston Hills Country Club Weston, FL Heritage Golf Group 100%
Weymouth Country Club Medina, OH EAGLE Golf 100%
ADDITIONAL LIFESTYLE ASSETS
Beaver Creek Resort Somerset, KY Marinas International 100%
Brady Mountain Resort and Marina Royal, AR Marinas International 100%
Burnside Marina Monticello, KY Marinas International 100%
Crystal Point Yacht Club Point Pleasant, NJ Marinas International 100%
Dallas Market Center Dallas, TX Crow Holdings Majority*
Eagle Cove Resort Byrdstown, TN Marinas International 100%
Great Lakes Marina Muskegon, MI Marinas International 100%
Holly Creek Marina Celina, TN Marinas International 100%
Lakefront Marina Port Clinton, OH Marinas International 100%
Manasquan River Club Brick, NJ Marinas International 100%
Mizner Court at Broken Sound Boca Raton, FL Greystar 100%
Orlando Grand Plaza Hotel and Suites Orlando, FL Held for Development 100%
Pier 121 Marina and East Hill Park Lewisville, TX Marinas International 100%
Route 66
Harley-Davidson Tulsa, OK Route 66 Real Estate 100%
Sandusky Harbor Marina Sandusky, OH Marinas International 100%
LOANS
Mount Cranmore Ski Resort North Conway, NH Booth Creek Loan
Porcupine Hills Estates Lake Tahoe, CA Booth Creek Loan
Big Sky Mountain Resort Big Sky, MT Boyne USA Loan
Emeryville Marina Emeryville, CA Marinas International Loan
Scott’s Landing Marina Grapevine, TX Marinas International Loan
Silver Lake Marina and Park Grapevine, TX Marinas International Loan
Twin Coves Marina and Park Flower Mound, TX Marinas International Loan
Orvis Shorefox Granby, CO Shorefox Development, LLC Loan

source: http://www.cnllifestylereit.com/l-list.asp

 

[Skimaine]

Steve Kircher explained the CNL relationship in a post on sugarloaftoday.com.

http://www.sugarloaftoday.com/chat/viewtopic.php?t=915&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Below is his post:

Folks,
As you may understand it has been a bit busy around Boyne these days and my time on the chat rooms is and will be limited.

However, I would like to hit a few of the items discussed in this string.

Why we entered into the Boyne/CNL relationship.

First off, it is the best capital structure to propel a privately held business available today.

We started this with 3 sale leaseback transactions on Gatlinburg, Cypress and Brighton. The relationship has worked seemlessly and allows us quiet enjoyment of the operations and access to a massive capital source.

The lease resorts are benefiting from significant reinvestment from CNL especially Brighton and Cypress. Maybe even more than our current wholly owned resorts.

We have a very unique opportunity with this relationship to bring long term patient capital to bear on these and our other resorts in which we have this lease scenario. It allows us to make the nessassary improvements to take these resorts and the other resorts to the next level.

To make sure the long term integrity of this relationship is in tact, we also have a capital reserve account that accumulates much like a condo reserve fund in an association for normal upkeep and maintenance capex.

This is to assure the asset is forever maintained and doesn't come into disrepair.

Any growth capex or investments such as new lifts and snowmaking would add to the lease basis and need to make financial sense in terms of increasing profits more than the lease basis costs.

From Boyne's and CNL's positions there is great incentive to drive capital into the leased resorts.

Especially since this unique relationship also allows for Boyne to be be the primary developer of the real estate in and around the resorts.

All in all it gives us and these resorts a competitive advantage that is unique and certainly different that what used to be the sources of capital for resort improvements and development.

More Hotels:

The misquote in the papers inferring we want to build more hotels is misleading.

We see new hotels being only in the very long term after much improvement to the existing ski and resort infrustructure there maybe opportunities for future hotel products.

There are millions to be spent on improvements such as lifts, snowmaking, new terrain, village updates and new amenties prior to that even beginning to make any sense.

Clearly until the occupancy of the existing facilities got up to the 50% plus percentage there would be no need. We see any new hotel facilities being at least 10 + years off at a minimum and more likely at Sunday River prior to Sugarloaf.

As ASC has done, we want to work with the various hotel condo associations to lay out plans for their respective futures.

Our philoshophy is to polish and refine the apple before building any large new structures.

As many of you know there already has been some significant upgrades to the hotel at Sugarloaf this spring and summer paid for by the association itself. More is needed to get it up to a competitive standard, but we look forward to helping mapping out those next steps with the respective boards.

The only new rental product that does make sense to us is marketing and selling some quaility ski in ski out furnished units in the form of duplexes or 4 plexes in the near term (1-5 years).

I hope this helps clear up some of the questions.

SK

 

[Geoff]

Mount Sunapee Resort Newbury, NH Triple Peaks 100%

]

That's a good trick. When did this REIT buy the State of New Hampshire?

 

[Nick]

Looking at that list of CNL-owned properties, wouldn't a pass covering all the New England resorts be a great deal?

I just realized this today. A pass like that would be pretty awesome. I knew about Loon / SR / SL from Boyne but imagine adding Jiminy Peak, Sunappee, Okemo to the list? Sounds like Stratton is just lodging.

http://www.cnllifestylereit.com/pdf/CLP-Property-Portfolio.pdf

• Brighton Ski Resort Brighton, UT
• Crested Butte Mountain Resort Mt. Crested Butte, CO
• Cypress Mountain British Columbia, Canada
• Gatlinburg Sky Lift Gatlinburg, TN
• Jiminy Peak Mountain Resort Hancock, MA
• Loon®
• Mountain Resort Lincoln, NH
• Mount Sunapee Mountain Resort Newbury, NH
• Mountain High Resort Wrightwood, CA
• Northstar-at-Tahoe™ Resort Lake Tahoe, CA
• Okemo Mountain Resort Ludlow, VT
• Sierra-at-Tahoe Resort South Lake Tahoe, CA
• Stevens Pass King County, WA
• Sugarloaf Mountain Resort Carrabassett Valley, ME
• Summit-at-Snoqualmie Resort Snoqualmie Pass, WA
• Sunday River Resort Newry, ME
• The Village at Northstar Lake Tahoe, CA
• Village of Baytowne Wharf* Sandestin, FL
• Village at Blue Mountain* Ontario, Canada
• Village at Copper Mountain* Copper Mountain, CO
• Village at Mammoth Mountain* Mammoth Lakes, CA
• Village at Stratton* Stratton, VT
• Village of Snowshoe Mountain* Snowshoe, WV
• Whistler Creekside* British Columbia, Canada

 

[BenedictGomez]

Wow, old thread. I did a REIT project (basically an internship but a "real world" project for the company) for CNL while I was getting my MBA. One of the guys in my group went to work for this concept after graduation. Pretty cool job, but I'd never invest in it.