Generators

[JimG.]

Where is your solar panel? I would have no choice other than putting it on my roof.



it's next to the patio behind the house. South facing. Unfortunately (fortunately??) I have a lot of trees that block direct sun for more than a few hours a day, but it keeps things topped off. I can run about 2-3 loads of wash off this a week generally, then if a storms coming I plug in the charger to top things off.
pic here
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2508410830094366337CNRKjM

Nice.

I'm surrounded by trees which keeps cooling costs down. Not good for solar power or sattelite.

 

[RootDKJ]

I'm looking for some help wiring a Generac GP7500E.

I am not looking to backfeed into my home's electrical system using a "suicide cable", however wiring this up according to NEC in 3 days is not going to be possible. I need a short term plan using materials that are available. Right now, transfer switches and interlock kits are all sold out in my area.

My electrical panel is an 100 Amp 120/240 volt Murray with a main disconnect, and all of the slots are already full. Have 2 Two 20 amp single pole breakers and I will use these to free up the top right two slots in my panel. In the two opened slots, I will install a 30 Amp two pole 240v breaker. That is the easy part.

The connection on the generator side is a L14-30 outlet, and I have 1 L14-30 male twist lock connector (got the last one at my Home Depot yesterday). The only 30 Amp cable I could get is 10/3, and the generator will sit about 50 feet away from the electrical panel. Can I use this cable to connect the generator to the electrical panel at 240V? How does that get wired up on both ends (color to color)? I understand that I can not have both the main and generator breakers closed at the same time and the dangers involved.

So the answer to my question is yes and no. Yes I can use the 10/3 to connect the genny, but only at 120V, so it would only energize half the circuits. Luckily for me, I was able to find 10/4 cable today.

 

[severine]

FWIW - back feeding from a generator through the drier outlet, or any outlet for that matter with an extension coord with two male ends (also known as a suicide cord in the electrical biz) violates the NEC (National Electric Code).

In the 99 NEC Code, it is 410-56 (g). [Later versions may have changed the numbering.]
"Attachment plugs shall be installed so tht their prongs, blades, or pins are not energized unless inserted into an energized receptacle. No receptacle shall be installed so as to require an energized attachment plug as its source of supply."

If your state has officially adopted the NEC as the official state electrical code, than the NEC is a law in that state, thus making it illegal to intentionally disregard it. Additionally CL&P is a client of mine, talked to a few of my contacts over there last year after the November storm about back feeding. I was informed by everyone there I spoke with that if CL&P catches you back feeding from a generator they will disconnect your house from the grid and won't reconnect it until you install a transfer switch and they verify the installation.

Yup, you're supposed to have a transfer switch. This is an excerpt from the city of Southington (CT) website, but code is code throughout the state:

[h=3]Generator Safety[/h]To avoid the accumulation of deadly carbon monoxide, only use a generator outdoors. Never use a generator indoors, in an attached garage, a basement, or a crawl space. Avoid using a generator in a partially enclosed inhabited space, even if it is ventilated; opening doors and windows or using fans will not prevent carbon monoxide build-up. If placing it outdoors, make sure the generator is far from a home's doors, windows and vents.

In addition, the storm has led to an increasing number of customers using generators to power their homes and businesses. CL&P reminds customers that if a generator is installed incorrectly to a home's wiring, it can cause power to "backfeed," or flow back into the power lines, creating a dangerous situation for the public and for our line crews who may be working nearby. To avoid this situation, have a qualified electrician connect the generator with a transfer switch, so that it is not connected directly to your home’s wiring.

Portable Generator - Electrical permit required for the transfer switch wiring.

Standby Generator - Permits required:

-Electrical
-Fuel Gas Piping
-Building Permit if Required

A Zoning Permit may be required due to a proposed location in the side yard. A rear yard installation is preferred.

Zoning gets involved to make sure your generator is installed meeting setback requirements, so your neighbors don't get pissed about the noise.

 

[Geoff]

Zoning gets involved to make sure your generator is installed meeting setback requirements, so your neighbors don't get pissed about the noise.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

What? This is my big chance to get even for all those leaf blowers.

 

[gmcunni]

so backfeeding is like speeding? it is illegal, increases risk to those around you but everyone is doing it.

 

[Geoff]

so backfeeding is like speeding? it is illegal, increases risk to those around you but everyone is doing it.

It's not illegal. The most the electric company can do is put you off the grid until you either get rid of your generator or install a transfer switch. I don't see how they could ever detect it since their view ends at the meter on the outside of the house.

It ain't rocket science to flip the main breaker before starting your generator. I know tons of people who backfeed using an "electric range" outlet in their garage. For something you almost never use, it's tough to justify a $1500 electrician bill to hook up your $750 Home Depot special portable generator.

 

[RootDKJ]

http://www.interlockkit.com/

 

[gmcunni]

seems pretty basic and simple to setup the manual transfer switch (of course the video makes it look easy). tho it makes backfeeding seem more attractive in that you power the whole panel and control which circuits work dynamically rather than the limit the switch puts on which circuits are live during blackout.

 

[o3jeff]

Might also want to check with your insurance company to see if they will cover generators and damage if it was found you were backfeeding the house without a switch in case of fire, etc. Would be pretty stupid to save $1k on one of the biggest investments you'll make.

 

[xwhaler]

http://www.interlockkit.com/

+ 1 This is what my Dad and I installed in my house last year

 

[JimG.]

This is all great info...I want to thank all you guys for posting this.

It would have taken me days to research all this but thanks to you all I have a good idea of what I need to do and all I had to do is read this thread.

 

[hammer]

If you have a Prius you can try using it as a backup generator...

http://www.wikihow.com/Use-a-Toyota-Prius-As-a-Backup-Generator

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

I scored an older Kawasaki 3000w genny on Friday afternoon before the store via Craigslist. Owner is an electrician and it started in 1 pull and was work-horse for the past 6 days....i ran ext cords (4 outlets)
1. dedicated cord to fridge
2. dedicated cord to my gas furnace (snipped off the end of the cord and spliced into the emrg shut off)
3.cord to Verizon box, tv, cable box, lamp
4. cord to bedroom tv, lamp, computer/router/wifi

was good on gas, ended up siphoning gas from my buddies boat which has 200 gallons in the tank....

 

[severine]

If you install without a permit, you're already doing it illegally. If you install with a permit, the building official will not sign off on it unless you use a transfer switch. I think that pretty much covers it.

o3jeff brings up an excellent point. We get calls all the time to verify if permits were pulled for projects in homes, the most menial stuff, whether the person is refinancing, shopping for new insurance, renewing insurance, or selling. They nitpick a lot these days.

 

[gmcunni]

If you install without a permit, you're already doing it illegally.

installing a manual transfer switch requires a permit?

what level of work requires a permit ?

 

[severine]

installing a manual transfer switch requires a permit?

what level of work requires a permit ?

Technically, any electrical work requires a permit.

If you are the homeowner living in a single- or two-family, you can do the work yourself, but you're supposed to pull an electrical permit with the Building Department and have an official sign off on your work.

 

[SKIQUATTRO]

My on/off switch just broke, i can start the genny, but have to pull the spark plug to shut it off....how easy is it to replace the switch? similar to this

 

[RootDKJ]

If you install without a permit, you're already doing it illegally.

Who is the victim?

 

[severine]

You. When your house burns down and insurance says they won't cover it.

I work in the Planning/Land Use and Building Departments. Before I stayed home with my kids for 5 years, I worked in the Assessor's Office for 8 years. Sorry, I'm a goody-two-shoes.

 

[gmcunni]

Who is the victim?

You. When your house burns down and insurance says they won't cover it.

the person who buys your house, if you don't burn it down.