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Haystack / Hermitage news
- Thread starter mlctvt
- Start date
NYDB
Well-known member
One can only hope the membership is eventually going to be on the hook to make everyone whole. I know with bankruptcy, etc. that won't happen, but it's nice to hope.
NYDB
Well-known member
that is some real spin.
drjeff
Well-known member
Talking to some different members today at a race at Pico, they are expecting the doors to be locked in the next few days...
Wish I was going to be at Mount Snow next weekend instead of Middlebury Snow Bowl for the VT State U14 championships, to see how many Hermitage members are at Mount Snow....
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WWF-VT
Well-known member
"According to the complaint, Barnes and the Hermitage failed to meet their obligation to make payments on three loans, including a $15 million "base lodge" note signed in December 2014, a $1 million bridge loan in June 2016, and a second bridge loan of $1.1 million made in July 2017. Of the total $17.1 million in loans, the Hermitage and Barnes still owe $16,342,175.61 in principal, along with $213,799.76 in interest, and $43,603.79 in late charges."
Someone at the bank is gonna lose their job now that they figured out that a customer that has made less than $700K in payments on $17M in loans was not a wise move
Someone at the bank is gonna lose their job now that they figured out that a customer that has made less than $700K in payments on $17M in loans was not a wise move
bdfreetuna
New member
Oh well. Hope Mt Snow buys it back.
I don't. Peaks has enough financial troubles as is that they don't need to bring on more debt. If Peaks were to buy anything, I'd think a Western property to diversify their portfolio and offer some insurance against bad NE winters would be the right play for them.
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bdfreetuna
New member
I don't remember Mount Snow being as crowded when Haystack was open. It's a decent comparison to Killington using Pico as an "overflow" ski resort. I guess everything is more expensive to run these days but I would expect Haystack to operate on a similar model to Pico (only certain days of the week and other cost saving measures like limited snowmaking).
drjeff
Well-known member
I'd end the speculation of Mount Snow buying the Hermitage given the liens now via the bankruptcy filing. Add that 16 or so million onto the then millions to buy out the rest, and Peak would likely be spending North of 25 million to buy an overflow area.....
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mister moose
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2007
- Messages
- 1,097
- Points
- 48
That's not how it works if it goes bankrupt. You either get cents on the dollar with a Judge's approval and re-organize or you liquidate to the highest bidder. Either way, the amount of indebtedness has nothing to do with the sales price.
ThinkSnow
Member
Perhaps Les Otten will get involved, buy it, and connect Haystack to The Balsams with a really long chairlift.
Jcb890
Active member
Kind of insane to think of the financial problems they're having with the prices they charge to join, etc. Crazy.
Pretty much everyone saw this coming and very few thought it would work though.
Pretty much everyone saw this coming and very few thought it would work though.
drjeff
Well-known member
As I've heard many members say, the value they get for their annual dues is quite great, and in reality, I've now heard 4 or 5 members say that their annual dues should be at least double what they've been paying, if not more for what they were getting in return.
The amount of real estate in the surrounding area that Jim Barnes bought up and tuned into either operating inns, or restaurants or the airport or the golf course or even just adjacent parcels of land for future member home development, let alone the Clubhouse,the lift upgrades, the mid mountain cabin/lodge, etc, etc, etc for sure wasn't cheap.
Ultimately, what it seems like the thing that broke the camels back, is the ACT 250 violations, which put a cease and desist order on their planned base area hotel/share condos, which if I recall was going to bring in somewhere in the 30-35 million dollar range of income to the club, and was supposed to be done for this season. It seems like that void in their income was likely what was going to be used to keep the club solvent until the phases of real estate they're trying to develop now provided income as well as what they hoped would be a full membership of around 1000 members.
If some of the other rumors that are circulating around the general Mount Snow area locals now are true, just wait as there will be some items coming to light, about utter carelessness and not just around the club finances, that will be right up there with the financial side of this...
The thing though, is that if Jim Barnes gets past his hang up that's he has to essentially be the face of the club, and accept the buy out their finance board has offered, I've heard from many people that a few of their hedge fund manager members will float a loan to the club to keep it going....
On a side note, the Hermitage's Facebook page was updated today saying that they'll be open for business as usual this Friday - Sunday (their regular scheduled operating days this week...)
I hope this would come out of their own pockets, but I'm sure they'll try to shift the credit risk to the funds' investors, who will never be any the wiser, I guess....
Smellytele
Well-known member
As Dr Jeff says "let's blame the state of Vermont" or at least act 250
NYDB
Well-known member
Why float a loan now (that's not in 1st position) on a dying season when you can pick up distressed assets on the cheap later on? These guys aren't (financially) stupid.
Worst case Ontario, you'll have to mingle with the common folk for a season or two while the lawyers battle it out.
Euler
Active member
The lengths Jeff goes to in order to try to defend this club (it's management really) is mind boggling. The managements behavior has been quite literally criminal.
Smellytele
Well-known member
Waiting to here about the Quiros type embezzlement.
drjeff
Well-known member
I've got no skin in the Hermitage game. I've got friends though who are members, and frankly are often far different than the image that many here on AZ think they are. And for that, I will stick up for them, since the many members that I know are nice people, who care about their family, and have been fortunate enough to make some good business decisions in their own lives along the way that have given them a very comfortable lifestyle, and they also love the same sport that the rest of us on AZ do. If that creates an issue for you, then so be it.
Frankly, if you read my posts, I'm not defending the management at all. Jim Barnes, is a very smooth salesman, but has run the club poorly on many, many, many occasions. And now he has a number of members with a vested financial interest, pride in the club, and the desire and financial wherewithal to aloow the club to continue to operate going forward, under different terms, if Jim Barnes and his ego, choose to let happen. Frankly, as a part time resident of that are, property owner in that area, and having many friends who live full time in that area, I am far more concerned with the economic vitality of the Deerfield Valley and it's residents than who's running the Hermitage. It's failure, which many, frankly shallow people here on AZ seem to be rooting for, would be an awful thing for the local residents, and that is the most important thing to me, and frankly that's why I sincerely hope that things will work out, even though I am highly doubting they will anymore
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