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Haystack / Hermitage news

Domeskier

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Why float a loan now (that's not in 1st position) on a dying season when you can pick up distressed assets on the cheap later on? These guys aren't (financially) stupid.

Worst case Ontario, you'll have to mingle with the common folk for a season or two while the lawyers battle it out.

Hedge fund managers? No. Which is why I assume they wouldn’t being making these loans out of their own pockets if it is not just wishful thinking of less well off club members
 

deadheadskier

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Smelly isn't a troll.

Identifying and commenting on questionable business practices by Hermitage and Peak/Mt Snow, isn't being a troll. It's being a realist.

I hope Dr Jeff is right and his high wealth buddies do all hold the opinion that their ROI has been a bargain so far and they're willing to double or more their contribution to keep the club going for their families. It's all on them now. Barnes has been a clueless manager based upon current struggles. The buck stops with him, not ACt 250. The regulations of that act has been well defined for decades. Not a good excuse

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prsboogie

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There really is a general hatred for anyone who smells of the 1%ers, poor management aside, there is definitely a "hope those rich bastard fall flat on their faces" attitude around here. I don't get it. I personally can't wrap my mind around the amount of money that people have to afford to join and thrive in "clubs" like this but I do not begrudge them for being able to do so. There are much larger stakes at risk like Jeff has said, the local economy will suffer a lot, in an area where they really cannot afford to have disposable income disappear.
 

sull1102

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Ya know as a full time resident in the area for the past four years now, I gotta tell ya the impact on the local economy will not be as devastating as people make it out to be. Outside a ten-twenty mile radius of the Club very few locals even know it exists, you have to say "the old Haystack" and then it rings a bell. Back when this all got going it was towards the end of the recession. Now things are slightly better economy wise. Also, Mount Snow is in a boom right now.

As for Jeff, hey the guy might have a slight tendency to fall on the side of the club, but I think what irks people on here is the constant hinting of worse things going on behind the scenes that he knows about and won't actually share. I get not wanting to spread possibly false information though.

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Smellytele

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There really is a general hatred for anyone who smells of the 1%ers, poor management aside, there is definitely a "hope those rich bastard fall flat on their faces" attitude around here. I don't get it. I personally can't wrap my mind around the amount of money that people have to afford to join and thrive in "clubs" like this but I do not begrudge them for being able to do so. There are much larger stakes at risk like Jeff has said, the local economy will suffer a lot, in an area where they really cannot afford to have disposable income disappear.

I don't want them to fail at all and hope they don't. I want the area to thrive and I don't want to see people lose their jobs, businesses. I also don't want these owners to be ripped off by shitty management. It is all about the management not the consumers of the mountain product.
 

urungus

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What is this place like, purely from a skiing perspective ? Do the have any narrow winding trails? Or is it all wide groomers? I was thinking of checking it out before it goes under. Who knows if/when it will ever reopen after this season. Even if you are not a member, you can ski there if you rent a room in one of their properties, correct?
 

Glenn

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There really is a general hatred for anyone who smells of the 1%ers, poor management aside, there is definitely a "hope those rich bastard fall flat on their faces" attitude around here. I don't get it. I personally can't wrap my mind around the amount of money that people have to afford to join and thrive in "clubs" like this but I do not begrudge them for being able to do so. There are much larger stakes at risk like Jeff has said, the local economy will suffer a lot, in an area where they really cannot afford to have disposable income disappear.


Well put. I'd love to be in a financial position to even consider joining a place like that. I'm not. But I don't resent people who are.
 

ThinkSnow

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What is this place like, purely from a skiing perspective ? Do the have any narrow winding trails? Or is it all wide groomers? I was thinking of checking it out before it goes under. Who knows if/when it will ever reopen after this season. Even if you are not a member, you can ski there if you rent a room in one of their properties, correct?
When it was Haystack, it was a really fun smaller mountain, with some narrower, winding trails. Can't speak for what it's like now.
 

Jully

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When it was Haystack, it was a really fun smaller mountain, with some narrower, winding trails. Can't speak for what it's like now.

I doubt they've changed any of the trails. Haystack was nothing super interesting, but provided a nice change of pace from Snow. Trails felt quite different.
 

x10003q

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What is this place like, purely from a skiing perspective ? Do the have any narrow winding trails? Or is it all wide groomers? I was thinking of checking it out before it goes under. Who knows if/when it will ever reopen after this season. Even if you are not a member, you can ski there if you rent a room in one of their properties, correct?

Haystack is pretty much a snoozefest. The Witches area has some fun stuff, but it is short. The best thing is no people, which was true when it was a public area.
 

sull1102

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What is this place like, purely from a skiing perspective ? Do the have any narrow winding trails? Or is it all wide groomers? I was thinking of checking it out before it goes under. Who knows if/when it will ever reopen after this season. Even if you are not a member, you can ski there if you rent a room in one of their properties, correct?
Having spent a little over 10 days riding there over the last two years I think I can help you out here. It's a nice midsized mountain, but can feel a little on the short side vert wise unless you're going to Wachusett in which case you'll think it's a lot of very. Overall not many wide groomers and the trails are definitely a little closer to that classic New England winding trail style as opposed to say Snowdance. The infrastructure is TOP NOTCH. You will not see a nicer base lodge, nicer fixed grip quads(those Skytrac lifts are insanely nice with rock work on the base terminal and thick cushions on every chair, nicer fan guns, or a nicer summit lift. That Doppelmayr they broke the bank for has heated seats and a bubble so it's a step up from the Bluebird. Everywhere you look you'll be blown away and find yourself wondering "WTF where did all this money come from" now we know it was poor Berkshire Bank. If you stay at the Hermitage Inn you'll likely have a smallish room, but you'll have direct lift access with the quad in the back yard.

Don't waste your time or money going if there's no natural snow. You can be 120% sure that great snowmaking system is shut down for the year so it's all on mother nature now. Like you said, who knows when you'll be able to ski it again if this doesn't work out in the members favor.

What do you guys think will happen here? Even short term I'm wondering how members are pulling there snowmobiles from the garages if there's no staff to do so or even get the keys to open the garage. It's not your usual NELSAP situation because here there are at least 15-20 very nice, luxurious new construction full size homes that are bought, paid for, and occupied. There's also those townhouses right below the clubhouse that have been occupied for at least a few years. I guess if the place goes under completely if you own there I guess you would switch over to Mt.Snow and keep your house at Haystack with the ski trails growing in. There's little to no chance those brand new not paid off chairlifts actually stay in place rotting away, right Mount Snow home to many an aging Yan fixed grip.

One last thing, everyone saying how this will devaste the local economy, stop being silly. It will have borderline no effect whatsoever on So. Vermont. Barely anyone knows what the Hermitage is outside Dover and Wilmington. The guy hasn't been paying his taxes, the water bill, the electric bill, WW Hardware, contractors from literally all over the area. And the disposal income probably isn't leaving, how are you going to sell your million dollar house at a defunct club? You aren't, you'll just head on down to Snow. Snow will probably see a very healthy bump in weekend traffic, and boy those new condos being built at Carinthia soon will be looking nice for the rich very soon.

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Jcb890

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boy those new condos being built at Carinthia soon will be looking nice for the rich very soon.
Maybe not though... a huge selling point to Hermitage Club was the exclusivity and lack of crowds. That won't be happening anywhere at Mt. Snow whether they own a place or not.
 

Euler

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...

...The guy hasn't been paying his taxes, the water bill, the electric bill, WW Hardware, contractors from literally all over the area. ...

^^^^^THIS^^^^
The harm to the local economy has been occurring for years now. Taking goods and services from small towns and small businesses without paying is not too cool in my book.

I've got absolutely no resentment against the folks who bought property or membership. On the other hand the management has been the rich stealing from the poor and for that I have no tolerance.
 

Domeskier

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It's about time some aggro club member shows up here and challenges you naysayers to a fight. This thread could use some livening up.
 

Glenn

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It's about time some aggro club member shows up here and challenges you naysayers to a fight. This thread could use some livening up.

Could use a touch of blue...and maybe some reckless skiing.
 

thetrailboss

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^^^^^THIS^^^^
The harm to the local economy has been occurring for years now. Taking goods and services from small towns and small businesses without paying is not too cool in my book.

I've got absolutely no resentment against the folks who bought property or membership. On the other hand the management has been the rich stealing from the poor and for that I have no tolerance.

I don't recall if this scheme started when I was still in Vermont or here in Utah (post-2011), but even from here, I felt that this did not smell right. Barnes seemed to be talking a big game.
 

deadheadskier

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I don't recall if this scheme started when I was still in Vermont or here in Utah (post-2011), but even from here, I felt that this did not smell right. Barnes seemed to be talking a big game.
What aspect didn't smell right?

What I want to know is how much risk and loss Barnes put on the line. I don't know what his take was, but didn't Barnes sell his waste management company for hundreds of millions of dollars prior to starting Hermitage?

I think knowing his worth would really put his defaulting on debt obligations in perspective. Did he sign checks that his wealth couldn't cash or has he refused to pay bills he can clearly afford and decided to use every means he has to screw over local vendors and the local municipality

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