Haystack / Hermitage news

[Smellytele]

You would have to work around this as it is still in place. The wording of it could become important because I've long wondered if you could somehow sell a $50 membership that includes a lift ticket.

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Like going to a bar in SLC.

 

[GregoryIsaacs]

I do remember hearing a long time ago (pre-carinthia) that if Mount Snow took control after the first failed private go-around (meadows i think it was called), they would of turned Haystack into the easts only strictly-park mountain. That being said I could not imagine that happening with the ski lodge that IMO belongs in Aspen.

 

[sull1102]

I do remember hearing a long time ago (pre-carinthia) that if Mount Snow took control after the first failed private go-around (meadows i think it was called), they would of turned Haystack into the easts only strictly-park mountain. That being said I could not imagine that happening with the ski lodge that IMO belongs in Aspen.

Oh god that would be GLORIOUS! Ya know I have long thought that something was going to change pretty soon here with the new Carinthia base area. That new lodge is VERY impressive in person and the proposed condo development will bring in tons of families that I can see very easily complaining about being at the base of a terrain park only face despite the park being there before they even build the place. I know I've read somewhere online that the idea is to turn one trail or two back into a normal snowmaking trail with no park to allow access. However, I see AMAZING potential in having a park only entire mountain with a whole lot of tree skiing thrown in for good measure. Of course the Barnstormer is wicked overkill for that, but hey if it was still there why not. I have also read that that lift is under a different ownership structure than the mountain, back when the rumor was Dopp was not paid. They came out and said they had been paid and in that somewhere I read about the other investors buying the lift. It sounded to me like some of the top members went in on the lift with Jim and there was potential to move it and get some cash because it itself was debt free.

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[machski]

Oh god that would be GLORIOUS! Ya know I have long thought that something was going to change pretty soon here with the new Carinthia base area. That new lodge is VERY impressive in person and the proposed condo development will bring in tons of families that I can see very easily complaining about being at the base of a terrain park only face despite the park being there before they even build the place. I know I've read somewhere online that the idea is to turn one trail or two back into a normal snowmaking trail with no park to allow access. However, I see AMAZING potential in having a park only entire mountain with a whole lot of tree skiing thrown in for good measure. Of course the Barnstormer is wicked overkill for that, but hey if it was still there why not. I have also read that that lift is under a different ownership structure than the mountain, back when the rumor was Dopp was not paid. They came out and said they had been paid and in that somewhere I read about the other investors buying the lift. It sounded to me like some of the top members went in on the lift with Jim and there was potential to move it and get some cash because it itself was debt free.

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I believe the previous poster may have been referring to Hermitage's lodge, not the new Carinthia base. No chance whatsoever Peaks would have any interest in running to separate areas. Yes K currently does it with Pico but I can almost guarantee if the interconnect wasn't still the blip on their radar and plans, they would have divested themselves of Pico long ago. Makes no sense, especially even further south to run two separate facilities not connected or with different purposes.

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[sull1102]

I believe the previous poster may have been referring to Hermitage's lodge, not the new Carinthia base. No chance whatsoever Peaks would have any interest in running to separate areas. Yes K currently does it with Pico but I can almost guarantee if the interconnect wasn't still the blip on their radar and plans, they would have divested themselves of Pico long ago. Makes no sense, especially even further south to run two separate facilities not connected or with different purposes.

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He was referring to the Hermitage Clubhouse base lodge (which truly does belong in Aspen it's that nice, I am referring to the Carinthia base lodge. And you never know Peak has Snow on such a strong upward trajectory these days anything could happen if the skier numbers keep growing like they have been. It really wouldn't be totally separate either. You could run the same staff just bounce around, move the Parks Crew down the street. It would be profitable as it's own park only mountain, just look at the success of Carinthia as a brand the past ten years.

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[GregoryIsaacs]

I believe the previous poster may have been referring to Hermitage's lodge, not the new Carinthia base. No chance whatsoever Peaks would have any interest in running to separate areas. Yes K currently does it with Pico but I can almost guarantee if the interconnect wasn't still the blip on their radar and plans, they would have divested themselves of Pico long ago. Makes no sense, especially even further south to run two separate facilities not connected or with different purposes.

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I did mean the Hermitage lodge.... I think it may be the nicest lodge in the northeast.

That being said, Carinthia will likely have to deal with the problems Sull1102 mentioned. IMO they should have kept the old lodge as a "Carinthia clubhouse", put some XBOX's, couches and a bar and left it for the park rats. The thing already had a freaking skate park halfpipe attached to it!

 

[Smellytele]

He was referring to the Hermitage Clubhouse base lodge (which truly does belong in Aspen it's that nice, I am referring to the Carinthia base lodge. And you never know Peak has Snow on such a strong upward trajectory these days anything could happen if the skier numbers keep growing like they have been. It really wouldn't be totally separate either. You could run the same staff just bounce around, move the Parks Crew down the street. It would be profitable as it's own park only mountain, just look at the success of Carinthia as a brand the past ten years.

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That would be like putting salt in the wounds of the home owners at Hermitage. Already got screwed buying into it then have to deal with park rats.

 

[icecoast1]

Haystack would be really nice as a park only mountain but it will never happen especially since connecting the two these days would be virtually impossible.

 

[skifree]

Maple Valley would be a great park only mountain.

Makes zero economic sense for Mt Snow to buy Haystack unless if was gifted to them.

 

[thetrailboss]

https://www.reformer.com/stories/winter-prep-wont-ramp-up-at-hermitage-ski-resort,554746

https://www.reformer.com/stories/club-member-claims-consumer-fraud-after-investment,555070

 

[sull1102]

Maple Valley would be a great park only mountain.

Makes zero economic sense for Mt Snow to buy Haystack unless if was gifted to them.

Maple valley would not work for a park mountain. It doesn't have enough vert or infrastructure and needs entirely too much work. Haystack would only work because all the infrastructure you could ever need is already in place and ready to go more or less. All the snowmaking you would need is ready to go and the lifts are just waiting for some riders. I agree with your second point, but I would call $2-5 million pretty much a gift.

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[sull1102]

https://www.reformer.com/stories/winter-prep-wont-ramp-up-at-hermitage-ski-resort,554746

https://www.reformer.com/stories/club-member-claims-consumer-fraud-after-investment,555070

I'd argue the place is losing value buy not being in operation this upcoming winter, bit that's just me. They better haul ass on getting that loan done and the money flowing. They have almost no shot of being open for Christmas vacation this year now it would seem. I'd say overall they have maybe a 20% chance of opening at all and the Barnstormer has a 40% chance of being bought and moved elsewhere. Really sad for a good mountain (bad people though) that had been doing better than ever recently, wish it wasn't all a fake show being put on all along.

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[ss20]

I'd argue the place is losing value buy not being in operation this upcoming winter, bit that's just me.

It absolutely is losing value. These members have a lot of money...what's gonna stop them from moving their winter base to Mount Snow, Okemo, or Stowe?

This cat has had a hellova lot of lives over the years maybe it's finally running out. I don't want to sound like I'm rooting against the Hermitage... but every iteration of ownership this mountain has had over its 50+ years has failed....quickly.

Lot's of good equipment on that hill though...toys other mountains would sure love to get for cheap. I don't want the courts to let it go to s***.

 

[Glenn]

Maple Valley would be a great park only mountain.

That's actually a really interesting angle. Infrastructure issues not withstanding.

Another good point in this thread was the member financing of one of the lifts and the impacts that has on keeping things in usable condition. Wonder if that's something that would get sold off sooner than later.

 

[icecoast1]

It absolutely is losing value. These members have a lot of money...what's gonna stop them from moving their winter base to Mount Snow, Okemo, or Stowe?

This cat has had a hellova lot of lives over the years maybe it's finally running out. I don't want to sound like I'm rooting against the Hermitage... but every iteration of ownership this mountain has had over its 50+ years has failed....quickly.

Lot's of good equipment on that hill though...toys other mountains would sure love to get for cheap. I don't want the courts to let it go to s***.

Its too bad foreclosure proceedings have to take so long. This thing has been going on since spring and in a perfect world should have been wrapped up so the new owner could actually operate the place for the winter


I agree every form of ownership has failed but the private ski area thing could actually work with the right management and no Jim Barnes. Time will tell

 

[machski]

That's actually a really interesting angle. Infrastructure issues not withstanding.

Another good point in this thread was the member financing of one of the lifts and the impacts that has on keeping things in usable condition. Wonder if that's something that would get sold off sooner than later.

Not just one of the lifts, THE lift that would catch the eye of resort operators. Thus why the Barnstormer has not had any maintenance during receivership. It is not bank owned so they don't want to devote $$ to an asset they do not own. Crazy and sad, though at least the chairs are in barn storage. Better than the grips/bubbles being exposed to the elements.

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[sull1102]

Not just one of the lifts, THE lift that would catch the eye of resort operators. Thus why the Barnstormer has not had any maintenance during receivership. It is not bank owned so they don't want to devote $$ to an asset they do not own. Crazy and sad, though at least the chairs are in barn storage. Better than the grips/bubbles being exposed to the elements.

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I wonder, could the group that technically owns the Barnstormer pay for maintenance separately? Bring in a small Dopp crew after they finish another job in the region or hire a couple guys on a short week contract. Not even to reopen but just to preserve value for a sale this spring? There's no way in hell that lift sits for two seasons unused when the lift market is on an extreme upward trajectory.

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[Newpylong]

Maple valley would not work for a park mountain. It doesn't have enough vert or infrastructure and needs entirely too much work. Haystack would only work because all the infrastructure you could ever need is already in place and ready to go more or less. All the snowmaking you would need is ready to go and the lifts are just waiting for some riders. I agree with your second point, but I would call $2-5 million pretty much a gift.

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Vertical means little in the scheme of having a successful park. Carinthia is 1,000 same as MV as it's perfect. However, the condition of MV is not conducive to doing anything with.

 

[machski]

I wonder, could the group that technically owns the Barnstormer pay for maintenance separately? Bring in a small Dopp crew after they finish another job in the region or hire a couple guys on a short week contract. Not even to reopen but just to preserve value for a sale this spring? There's no way in hell that lift sits for two seasons unused when the lift market is on an extreme upward trajectory.

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Probably could but the bigger question is could they get granted access to the lift to do the work. Absolute mess and the group that owns the lift are club owners. No way will they sell that lift of there is any chance in hell of rescuing the club. So yes, there is a very large chance that lift sits for years unused.

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[sull1102]

Vertical means little in the scheme of having a successful park. Carinthia is 1,000 same as MV as it's perfect. However, the condition of MV is not conducive to doing anything with.

.... Being one of the very few snowboarders on here and having many friends into the park scene on both one and two planks, I can assure you vert has a lot to do with attracting enough park riders and skiers to run a business. Maple Valley could never work as a park only mountain. The terrain is not there, the vert is barely 850 feet, the trail layout is not conducive to park riding plain and simple. The pitch isn't really great for a park. The infrastructure is not there, Nitro is crucial to Carinthia's success, those two old doubles are A. Dead and rusting away and B. Even if running slow AF and not what anyone is looking to ride, Carinthia and Haystack have snowmaking already in place and those fan guns do incredible work building up whales fast when the temps are right. MV has nowhere to put the needed snowmaking pond, no guns worthwhile, no big show off trails under the lifts or in front of the lodge. Need I go on?

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