Haystack / Hermitage news

[sull1102]

It sounds like little hope to get things running this season. Very unfortunate for the owners. It seemed like there was some hope during the summer that they might figure out something for this season. Seems less likely each day.

I mean to me this really sounded like the white flag was being waved and it's all over. The one guy is being hired to "winterize" the place and basically batten down the hatches and lock up on the way out.

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[Glenn]

It may be a long shot....if things are taken care of and shut down properly, could help if financing does come along. Just won't be happening for this ski season.

 

[sull1102]

https://www.dvalnews.com/news/hermitage-club-turnaround-company-turns-adversary

Oh boy, now they can't even repay a $410k loan from April of this year, man this is going downhill as fast as it possibly can. Has anyone even seen or heard from Jim Barnes in the last 6 months? Seems like he ran away and hid. I also wonder if all the members who had snowmobiles in storage at the club were able to get those back now that the trails are getting very close to opening.

 

[Smellytele]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...reclosed-vermont-ski-club-sue-for-9-8-million

 

[icecoast1]

https://www.boston.com/news/local-n...reclosed-vermont-ski-club-sue-for-9-8-million

That is a perfect example of the craziness of that place, that you have you create a shell company that you are the manager of just to come up with money to build a chairlift

 

[MorningWoods]

That is a perfect example of the craziness of that place, that you have you create a shell company that you are the manager of just to come up with money to build a chairlift

Yeah, not only that but a six pack heated bubble chair lift that costs 2x more than what they need. Why? I get the place is for the elite but no wonder they couldn’t pay their bills. What a complete sh!t show.


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[sull1102]

Once that lawsuit is cleared up those investors will have zero trouble finding a new owner that's willing to pay over $7 million for that lift.

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[icecoast1]

Once that lawsuit is cleared up those investors will have zero trouble finding a new owner that's willing to pay over $7 million for that lift.

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If it comes to that. The mountain will re open at some point. It's just a matter of how rough of shape it's in when it does.

 

[AdironRider]

That is a perfect example of the craziness of that place, that you have you create a shell company that you are the manager of just to come up with money to build a chairlift

I don't know enough about the financials of the club, but this could be, and very likely served some purpose as such, just a way to limit liability.

Lots of businesses will place certain assets into separate holding companies in case of shit hitting the fan, it doesn't bring the rest of the organization down with it. In this case, if someone was to fall from the lift and sue, they conceivably would only have to liquidate one lift vs the whole operation depending on the judgement.

It is easy to hate shell corporations but they do serve a purpose in lots of situations. Given homeboys track record he probably abused it from there, but the CPA that set it up probably had good intentions.

 

[sull1102]

If it comes to that. The mountain will re open at some point. It's just a matter of how rough of shape it's in when it does.

I've become more and more doubtful of that as time roles on here. It's had such a troubled history. A lot of stuff is going to be ripped out soon here, snowmaking equipment, groomers, etc. I also don't view that lift as 100% essential to operation, you could use the Pomas for a whole lot cheaper and build from there.

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[deadheadskier]

Once that lawsuit is cleared up those investors will have zero trouble finding a new owner that's willing to pay over $7 million for that lift.

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The lift cost $7.8M new per the article. That seems on the high side as is compared to other recent six pack installs.

Why would a ski area pay $7M for a used six pack that will likely also cost them seven figures plus to move and install?

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[sull1102]

The lift cost $7.8M new per the article. That seems on the high side as is compared to other recent six pack installs.

Why would a ski area pay $7M for a used six pack that will likely also cost them seven figures plus to move and install?

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Was under the impression that these heated bubble six pack lifts are over $9 million to install these days. Perhaps you have data for other recent heated bubble six pack installs? This lift is about as close to mint condition as any out there on the market having been used for just three years on a part time schedule typically weekends only and short seasons.

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[deadheadskier]

Okemo spent $6.9M on theirs in 2014. 1000 feet longer, bigger engine, more chairs.

Even though Haystacks is in mint condition, I have to imagine there's a fair amount of depreciation and it will be costly to move. I'd be surprised if it sold for more than $5M.

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[Smellytele]

Okemo spent $6.9M on theirs in 2014. 1000 feet longer, bigger engine, more chairs.

Even though Haystacks is in mint condition, I have to imagine there's a fair amount of depreciation and it will be costly to move. I'd be surprised if it sold for more than $5M.

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Is Okemo's heated?

 

[deadheadskier]

Yes. Apparently theirs was the first heated one in the country

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[jaytrem]

Okemo spent $6.9M on theirs in 2014. 1000 feet longer, bigger engine, more chairs.

Even though Haystacks is in mint condition, I have to imagine there's a fair amount of depreciation and it will be costly to move. I'd be surprised if it sold for more than $5M.

I agree when you remove the value of the foundations for the towers, stations and barn, construction costs, engineering, possibly the barn itself, over $5M would be very surprising.

 

[sull1102]

Okemo spent $6.9M on theirs in 2014. 1000 feet longer, bigger engine, more chairs.

Even though Haystacks is in mint condition, I have to imagine there's a fair amount of depreciation and it will be costly to move. I'd be surprised if it sold for more than $5M.

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Okemo's is also a Poma where as this is a Dopp so that changes things slightly for sure and also many other resorts were slowing down lift installs at that point. Looking around a bit it looks like the Bluebird was $8 million, Stratton just laid out $7.1 million for a non heated non bubble quad. So I may have been off by half a million on what they'll get but I still think it silly to believe they would get a mere $5 million for a heated bubble lift barely used at all with the extra padding seat option.

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[Smellytele]

Okemo's is also a Poma where as this is a Dopp so that changes things slightly for sure and also many other resorts were slowing down lift installs at that point. Looking around a bit it looks like the Bluebird was $8 million, Stratton just laid out $7.1 million for a non heated non bubble quad. So I may have been off by half a million on what they'll get but I still think it silly to believe they would get a mere $5 million for a heated bubble lift barely used at all with the extra padding seat option.

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But the prices are all installed brand new correct?

 

[cdskier]

I agree when you remove the value of the foundations for the towers, stations and barn, construction costs, engineering, possibly the barn itself, over $5M would be very surprising.

Yup. Very important to keep in mind that the actual value of the physical lift itself is not the same as the original cost that was paid.

 

[sull1102]

But the prices are all installed brand new correct?

Yes, with install costs. Keep in mind though there is something to be said for demand of this summer is the start of a new trend. Moving a lift and installing it at your mountain ala Crotched from Ascutney, is going to quicker and easier than having to get in line and wait. You could be flying in towers while others are still waiting for parts in the parking lot. There's one mountain, yes they have almost all Pomas right now, that is uniquely positioned to take advantage and fly the parts a few miles up the ridge.

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