I'd like you or someone to expand on this. Would like to know why a Duke, which is designed for the slack country enthusiast, would help push a 105 mm ski better on hard pack.
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How Fat is Too Fat?
- Thread starter riverc0il
- Start date
I'd like you or someone to expand on this. Would like to know why a Duke, which is designed for the slack country enthusiast, would help push a 105 mm ski better on hard pack.
mondeo
New member
One of the benefits advertised by the Duke/Baron/Jester/Griffon family is the wide base gives better power transmission due to being laterally stiffer. I call BS on that claim except for the high end athletes, no one else would know the difference (especially since the hole pattern didn't actually get wider, to my knowledge.)
Dukes and Barons also have a decent bit of lift?
makes sense, but leaves a lot of splainin' still
kinda weak for an engineer Mike. I expect more from you. If you can compare STI's and Corvettes to skis, I expect a bit more out of you when it comes to binding discussions .
:razz:
mondeo
New member
It's Friday at 10PM, it's been a week of the ski falling, and I've been up since 6AM today (due to said sky falling.) I started the free body diagram, but gave up.
My understanding is that the benefit of lifters is that you don't boot out when really leaning into a turn, purely by moving the boot away from the snow. Once you're set in a carve, the forces don't change, non-lifted to lifted. I don't know enough about the body mechanics to say what impact it has on setting a carve in the first place.
GrilledSteezeSandwich
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I feel like fat skis are an even greater benefit in crud that powder...in light and try powder I can get float on my carving skis..but the larger shoval and width really busts through the crud piles..little push piles get completely flattened..and the spray...the spray from fat twins is spectacular!!!!!
GrilledSteezeSandwich
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Awwwww..........does someone need to tuck you in Mikey? :razz:
ahahahahahaha...I don't see any benefit to using Alpinetouring binders on a pair of powder boards unless you plan on touring..mainly because they are way heavier...I've been told that lifters are better suited for carving skis than powder skis..and yes most powder skis have a decent sidecut despite a much larger turn radius so you can still get really low..I have booted out before..if only I was lifted..
mondeo
New member
Yep, all those heavyweight AT bindings...
Duke's are heavy for AT bindings. Not sure how they compare to a regular set-up.
mondeo
New member
A little over 5lbs, not much different than most other bindings.
But they're frakin' expensive.
awf170
New member
Agreed. In completely untracked powder on terrain that isn't very challenging I will always take a 75mm waist, 14m turn radius ski over a powder ski.
Just curious... what length are you guys getting these fat skis in? Length is going to have a lot to do with how they maneuver and float. I would actually rather have length than excessive width. My ideal one ski quiver would have a 100mm waist and be about 185cm long. For reference I only weigh a 140lbs.
riverc0il
New member
Good call on wanting an explanation because I call BS that certain Marker bindings are the reason 100mm skis took off. They have been around a LOT longer than the new Marker bindings and I doubt very much that these bindings in particular work any better on fatter skis.
Trekchick
Active member
I'd be inclined to think that the marker bindings got a second wind because of the opportunity to cater to the fatter skis.
Prior to the royalty line they were used primarily by racers and had a bad rap from the maggot-ish crowd.
I plan on putting Griffon's on my Kiku's.
Prior to the royalty line they were used primarily by racers and had a bad rap from the maggot-ish crowd.
I plan on putting Griffon's on my Kiku's.
riverc0il
New member
Marker got its second wind because it crushed the backcountry market with the best slackcountry frontside/backside binding for those that rarely toured but wanted to have the option for slacking or short approaches. It is still, amazingly, unchallenged. I think they marketed their other offerings well, especially to the park crowd. Aside from the slackcountry offerings of the Duke, they are not game changers for fat skis. Marker definitely had a bad rep with the backcountry, park, and free riding populations though I think it was generally unfounded. The new line of bindings definitely updated their image significantly amongst these populations. Though I think without the Duke and its slackcountry and short touring "one ski quiver" possibilities, this line of bindings would not have taken off. I am still amazed at the amount of people with Dukes that rarely tour. Some folks have had Dukes for a while and still have yet to tour. Just my $0.02.
mondeo
New member
I hated the older Markers I had. Constant pre-releases from any sort of impact - that's why they have the bad rep from the park and bump crowds. The Looks I have on my Twisters are definately much better, though tankish.
The Griffons and Jesters would get consideration for a new ski now, though. Light, better prerelease than the old Markers (from my understanding,) and smaller mounting footprint.
The Griffons and Jesters would get consideration for a new ski now, though. Light, better prerelease than the old Markers (from my understanding,) and smaller mounting footprint.
GrilledSteezeSandwich
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Trekchick
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rivercoil, I'm one of the slackers with a set of Dukes on my Bros.
I actually ordered jesters with a demo track but they were out of stock so I chose the Duke to keep the wideride binding option, and thought I may do some touring if it came up.
I really gotta use them to their potential!!!
I actually ordered jesters with a demo track but they were out of stock so I chose the Duke to keep the wideride binding option, and thought I may do some touring if it came up.
I really gotta use them to their potential!!!
snowmonster
New member
I got a 100 waisted ski two years ago and slapped on Dukes on them because I wanted the best of both worlds -- a solid binding in the resort that was capable of being used for skinning. The Dukes gave me that and I'm pretty satisfied. Other choices around at that time were Naxos and Fritschis but the Dukes seemed to be more "bomber." The best application for Dukes is on short approaches or, if you have the legs for it, daytours. I've skinned up to HoJo's in my Dukes and they were alright -- though the weight penalty can really get to you.
If you intend to use the ski for touring, I think Dynafits are the best option. You have to be honest with yourself: if you intend to ski most of the time inbounds but will go out of bounds once in a while or do short tours, the Dukes/Barons may be the ticket. I just got a really good deal on some Dukes and those are going on to some new fattier boards. I think a little bit more exploring outside the ropes is in my agenda next season. They may also come in handy when my home mountain goes on windhold.
If you intend to use the ski for touring, I think Dynafits are the best option. You have to be honest with yourself: if you intend to ski most of the time inbounds but will go out of bounds once in a while or do short tours, the Dukes/Barons may be the ticket. I just got a really good deal on some Dukes and those are going on to some new fattier boards. I think a little bit more exploring outside the ropes is in my agenda next season. They may also come in handy when my home mountain goes on windhold.
roark
New member
With 2 new 100+ skis in the quiver this year I'm intrigued to see how I feel... demoing skis like the mantras I was surprised how well they railed the groomers given that's not what I had in mind... I wanted a bit more float than I got from the b4's... I'm mounting the nomads/d-structures with dukes - the specs say they're 105 but word is they're wider, you're welcome to try them out if you can fit in a small duke (and be well behind the intended boot center mark I presume). Not sure what the hell I'm doing with the maven protos :dunce:
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