I am taking the rest of December off...

[salida]

So you're telling me he's an intermediate with size 14 feet ? :blink:

What is the matter with you? Based on height/weight, Steve starts at Row L. Add two rows for a Type III skier and you're at Row N. Based on his boot sole length, 8.25 - 10 (far from the "at least 11" you suggested). Sheesh. How hard is this? :roll:

What's the matter with you ? He said he's 210 lbs...with gear on well over that. Weight trumps height. I don't even know why they put height in there as it's to be ignored when superceeded by weight. Weight has been the basis for Din since the beginning of the standard. He is most likely a level 4 power skier therefore the last thing in the world you want to do is bing his weight down a notch to fit him in at the top of a broad weight category on a level 3 rating. Do something like that and someone's likely to get a pre-release and break an arm...jeeesh. :blink:

Re-read this topic, it was not the ski that was adjusted properly (8-8.5) that came off, it was the ski adjusted at DIN 7, that came off. 8-8.5 is right for this skier...

PS Don't be mean its not cool

 

[salida]

From the files of non-releaseable tele lore:

"Free the heel and the mind will follow"

 

[Vortex]

Steve, just time for some hiking.
Make the turns when the days are getting longer.

 

[bvibert]

So you're telling me he's an intermediate with size 14 feet ? :blink:

No one is saying that Steve is an intermediate, following the directions accompanying the chart that you provided a link to puts him on row N. Yes he has size 14 feet, is there some problem with that? :blink:

 

[bvibert]

Sorry to hear about your injury Steve. Follow the doctor's orders and get that thing back into ski condition so you can salvage the rest of the season!

 

[LVNLARG]

What's the matter with you ? He said he's 210 lbs...with gear on well over that. Weight trumps height. I don't even know why they put height in there as it's to be ignored when superceeded by weight. Weight has been the basis for Din since the beginning of the standard. He is most likely a level 4 power skier therefore the last thing in the world you want to do is bing his weight down a notch to fit him in at the top of a broad weight category on a level 3 rating.

Find Release Code (letter A - O) which corresponds to skier weight and find Release Code which corresponds to skier height. If not the same, choose the one closer to the top of the chart. For example if skier weight is 175 lb. (L) and height is 5'7" (K), choose code K as the correct line of chart.

You referenced a chart and then altered the "instructions" to fit your own interpretation.

Do something like that and someone's likely to get a pre-release and break an arm...jeeesh. :blink:

No need to be condescending... :roll:

Ooops....I guess they thru in a twist. We always ran off Tyrolia's race chart and the rule was weight trumps height. Even still...my logic is still good because of the other extenuating cicumstance of the fact that he's a better skier than the levels on this particular chart go to. So you take this and that and weigh it in one hand....and that and this and weigh it in the other and you land one row further down and a Din on the quicker to release end of his Skier level of 4...

 

[kbroderick]

What is the matter with you? Based on height/weight, Steve starts at Row L. Add two rows for a Type III skier and you're at Row N. Based on his boot sole length, 8.25 - 10 (far from the "at least 11" you suggested). Sheesh. How hard is this? :roll:

What's the matter with you ? He said he's 210 lbs...with gear on well over that. Weight trumps height. I don't even know why they put height in there as it's to be ignored when superceeded by weight. Weight has been the basis for Din since the beginning of the standard. He is most likely a level 4 power skier therefore the last thing in the world you want to do is bing his weight down a notch to fit him in at the top of a broad weight category on a level 3 rating. Do something like that and someone's likely to get a pre-release and break an arm...jeeesh. :blink:

Actually, according to the page on which the chart is posted, the lower setting of { weight, height } should be taken:

1. Find Release Code (letter A - O) which corresponds to skier weight and find Release Code which corresponds to skier height. If not the same, choose the one closer to the top of the chart. For example if skier weight is 175 lb. (L) and height is 5'7" (K), choose code K as the correct line of chart.

I'm assuming that comes from the same shop manual that the chart came from.

Regarding how techs in a shop will set a binding versus how a ski team tech will do it, the techs will (pronounced "should") follow the book exactly, every time. Doing so allows them to shift some of the liability from the shop back to the binding manufacturer, who has (presumably) done extensive theoretical and experimental work with the bindings and injury models to determine the best setting for a particular skier. Binding company shop manuals tend to result in settings that are ludicrously low for certain skiers (particularly racers and others who regularly put well-above-average stresses on equipment and ski in a manner or in areas where a prerelease is a far greater risk than a non-release in a fall).

My theory as to why:

Binding companies know that they will face serious liability if their equipment fails to release and a skier sustains a twisting fracture (which, I think, is the only kind of injury really prevented by releasable bindings). They are far less likely to face liability issues if someone prereleases, as the easiest way to cause a prerelease is poor technique. Therefore, they are going to suggest settings that tend towards prerelease rather than towards nasty bone-snapping noises. Furthermore, racers (and other high-caliber skiers) tend to be aware of this and also tend to be willing to adjust their bindings to compensate for it, thereby reducing the chance that binding companies are going to be taken to task for suggesting inappropriate DIN settings for those racers.

My personal experience as it relates to the subject:
Between 8th grade and my sophomore year in high school, I developed a nasty habit of discarding skis at inopportune times in race courses. I had a much smaller problem with Rossi bindings (Course FK's with the high-elasticity turntable heel) than with other bindings, but I generally skied with a much higher DIN setting than the chart recommends, particularly at the heel. I've even walked out of GS skis set at 15.5, which is nearly twice my DIN setting per the charts. Since fixing the major flaws in my technique, I've had almost no trouble skiing at a much more conservative DIN setting. The only thrown shoe I recall junior or senior year was a particularly memorable one, when I leaned in approaching Headwall on Narrow Gauge in a March Super-G...I found myself upright but missing my right ski as I came into the big turn down headwall. Let's just say that I was really glad to find some B-netting to help me out.

For those of you who are following this thread who are now doubting the settings that your favorite shop(s) provide, keep in mind:
a) if you haven't had a problem walking out, repeatedly, your bindings are not set too low and you don't need to turn up the DIN
b) if you have had a problem walking out, repeatedly, then your technique probably stinks and you should take some lessons
c) if you have an occasional problem walking out at inopportune times (which I think covers the post that started the thread, and my condolences to riverc0il), then you need to consider whether you'd prefer following the suggestions of a bunch of highly-trained binding engineers, which are quite likely to fractures, or whether you'd prefer to trust your own instincts and significantly increase the likelihood that you might fracture a leg while decreasing the chance you might end up meeting a snowmaking pipe, cliff, or other obstacle at a high rate of speed

(edit: fixed missing quote tag)

 

[LVNLARG]

Binding company shop manuals tend to result in settings that are ludicrously low for certain skiers (particularly racers and others who regularly put well-above-average stresses on equipment and ski in a manner or in areas where a prerelease is a far greater risk than a non-release in a fall).

My theory as to why:

Binding companies know that they will face serious liability if their equipment fails to release and a skier sustains a twisting fracture (which, I think, is the only kind of injury really prevented by releasable bindings). They are far less likely to face liability issues if someone prereleases, as the easiest way to cause a prerelease is poor technique. Therefore, they are going to suggest settings that tend towards prerelease rather than towards nasty bone-snapping noises. Furthermore, racers (and other high-caliber skiers) tend to be aware of this and also tend to be willing to adjust their bindings to compensate for it, thereby reducing the chance that binding companies are going to be taken to task for suggesting inappropriate DIN settings for those racers.

My personal experience as it relates to the subject:
Between 8th grade and my sophomore year in high school, I developed a nasty habit of discarding skis at inopportune times in race courses. I had a much smaller problem with Rossi bindings (Course FK's with the high-elasticity turntable heel) than with other bindings, but I generally skied with a much higher DIN setting than the chart recommends, particularly at the heel. I've even walked out of GS skis set at 15.5, which is nearly twice my DIN setting per the charts. Since fixing the major flaws in my technique, I've had almost no trouble skiing at a much more conservative DIN setting. The only thrown shoe I recall junior or senior year was a particularly memorable one, when I leaned in approaching Headwall on Narrow Gauge in a March Super-G...I found myself upright but missing my right ski as I came into the big turn down headwall. Let's just say that I was really glad to find some B-netting to help me out.

For those of you who are following this thread who are now doubting the settings that your favorite shop(s) provide, keep in mind:
a) if you haven't had a problem walking out, repeatedly, your bindings are not set too low and you don't need to turn up the DIN
b) if you have had a problem walking out, repeatedly, then your technique probably stinks and you should take some lessons
c) if you have an occasional problem walking out at inopportune times (which I think covers the post that started the thread, and my condolences to riverc0il), then you need to consider whether you'd prefer following the suggestions of a bunch of highly-trained binding engineers, which are quite likely to fractures, or whether you'd prefer to trust your own instincts and significantly increase the likelihood that you might fracture a leg while decreasing the chance you might end up meeting a snowmaking pipe, cliff, or other obstacle at a high rate of speed

(edit: fixed missing quote tag)

Thanks and thanks for the red highlighted passages. This is the EXACT point I've been tryin to explain. The CONSUMER chart far differs from the RACE/PRO charts due to simple liability issues. When the ski patrol (witness) finds a skier with a broken leg and his skis are still on... questions are asked. When the ski patrol find a skier with a broken leg and skis off no questions are asked and there is no witness to the fact that you pre-released causing the injury other than you. I was trying to explain to River thru inside knowledge of Din setting and Race charts issued by the manufactuers for pros that his din being so low had more to do with his injury than the mismatching. I would predict he would have lost his ski if they were both set on 8.5 even. Sadly....my attempt to pass along insider knowledge has deteriorated into bikering over 1 level on weak rated consumer chart.

 

[ctenidae]

I don't know that he's a Level 4 skier- I mean, he did run into a tree, after all.

Clearly Steve forgot teh only important rule of skiing- "Go that way, really fast. If anything gets in your way, turn."

 

[bvibert]

I don't know that he's a Level 4 skier- I mean, he did run into a tree, after all.

Clearly Steve forgot teh only important rule of skiing- "Go that way, really fast. If anything gets in your way, turn."

Good advice! Thanks for adding a little levity back into the discussion.

 

[riverc0il]

the FACT remains that the accident was not caused by an inappropriate DIN setting, but rather the toe piece of one binding not being set correctly. and what is this stuff about a racer/pro chart? i am neither a racer nor a pro. and last i checked, the shops only have three levels from which they ask you to rank yourself, not sure about level 4 you reference, but you must have a different chart than the rest of the world.

jeez, wtf man? lay off and read what the hell other people are saying, not what you think they are saying.

 

[LVNLARG]

the FACT remains that the accident was not caused by an inappropriate DIN setting, but rather the toe piece of one binding not being set correctly. and what is this stuff about a racer/pro chart? i am neither a racer nor a pro. and last i checked, the shops only have three levels from which they ask you to rank yourself, not sure about level 4 you reference, but you must have a different chart than the rest of the world.

jeez, wtf man? lay off and read what the hell other people are saying, not what you think they are saying.

Actually...I do use a different chart than the rest of the world CAN GET THERE HANDS ON and I was trying to pass that knowledge along to the rest of the members in here who are top notch skiers for their personal knowledge and safety. Because you can't comprehend me using a different chart than you've seen due to you having a know-it-all-know-but-knows-nothing mentality you chose to actually tell people to ignore the knowledge that I was trying to pass along because in your world... if you hadn't heard of it..it must be b*****t. :angry:

 

[JimG.]

Attempt at humor #2:

All of the DIN stuff is nice, but does anyone have the book that tells us how to heal fractures in a few days instead of weeks?

 

[SkiDog]

there HAS to be someone on this board who tunes skis for a living that can chime in here somewhere...this train is QUICKLY losing its wheels...

I would like a "professionals" opinion on all of the matter in this thread...this way we can dispell any myths...

Thanks..

M

 

[SkiDog]

Attempt at humor #2:

All of the DIN stuff is nice, but does anyone have the book that tells us how to heal fractures in a few days instead of weeks?

MR MIAGI....or at least his technique...

M

 

[JimG.]

Attempt at humor #2:

All of the DIN stuff is nice, but does anyone have the book that tells us how to heal fractures in a few days instead of weeks?

MR MIAGI....or at least his technique...

M

Oh yeah, Mr. Miagi and the knee. But as I recall, the Karate Kid was still pretty lame even after the procedure.

 

[Greg]

Actually...I do use a different chart than the rest of the world CAN GET THERE HANDS ON and I was trying to pass that knowledge along to the rest of the members in here who are top notch skiers for their personal knowledge and safety. Because you can't comprehend me using a different chart than you've seen due to you having a know-it-all-know-but-knows-nothing mentality you chose to actually tell people to ignore the knowledge that I was trying to pass along because in your world... if you hadn't heard of it..it must be b*****t. :angry:

Yeah, but the problem here is you posted a standard chart and then tried to interpret it using your "special" chart.:blink:

BTW, I've skied with Steve and he is one of the best skiers I've ever skied with. He's also provided several thousand quality posts here full of advice for several years so labelling him a know-it-all is a bit out of line (hmmm...what color is that kettle?). Let him heal up and then go take some turns with him. If you can keep up you guys can rap about your DIN charts all day long... :lol:

 

[SkiDog]

Attempt at humor #2:

All of the DIN stuff is nice, but does anyone have the book that tells us how to heal fractures in a few days instead of weeks?

MR MIAGI....or at least his technique...

M

Oh yeah, Mr. Miagi and the knee. But as I recall, the Karate Kid was still pretty lame even after the procedure.

BUT...remember...he did fight...."daniel Larusso's gonna fight?"

HA

M

 

[LVNLARG]

there HAS to be someone on this board who tunes skis for a living that can chime in here somewhere...this train is QUICKLY losing its wheels...

I would like a "professionals" opinion on all of the matter in this thread...this way we can dispell any myths...

Thanks..

M

Actually ...I would guess that only 10 or 20 percent of people who tune skis for a living have knowledge of Race/Pro charts and Din setting of such. The binding manufacturers keep it pretty close to chest due again to the liability issues. This is why I was sending Awf off to see the head Rep ...not the local ski shop.

 

[SkiDog]

there HAS to be someone on this board who tunes skis for a living that can chime in here somewhere...this train is QUICKLY losing its wheels...

I would like a "professionals" opinion on all of the matter in this thread...this way we can dispell any myths...

Thanks..

M

Actually ...I would guess that only 10 or 20 percent of people who tune skis for a living have knowledge of Race/Pro charts and Din setting of such. The binding manufacturers keep it pretty close to chest due again to the liability issues. This is why I was sending Awf off to see the head Rep ...not the local ski shop.

I will contact my buddy in VT then he used to tune for the US Olympic team.....and what says that someone who tunes at a local shop cant also tune for Racers? that would mean they have access to that chart. then how may I ask did you "obtain" your copy.??


M